Rhabdomyolysis And Glucose Link.

[sandymere 8,261]

Had an interesting case in which a young person has a history of severe muscle soreness after exercise, presented today with painful swollen arms and shoulders following an intense exercise session. Bloods showed CK (product of muscle breakdown

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_kinase )

of 54’000 which is high! Diagnosed as having rhabdomyolysis. Discussed with renal consultant who had undertaken a study which showed some people have a problem with their ability to store glucose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen_storage_disease)

with the result when exercising they quickly run short of glucose and as fat takes time to utilise they breakdown muscle protein as an energy source resulting in a predisposition to rhabdomyolysis.

 

So my supposition is; as dogs, much as humans suffering a glycogen storage disease have limited store of glucose, stored as glycogen, they will also have a predisposition to start breaking down muscle as fuel when undertaking high energy glucose dependent sprinting type exercise. This will be exacerbated if stores are not fully loaded.

 

The bottom line, don’t fast your dogs pre working, especially if expecting long testing runs. Use glucose replacement, of your choice, before and after runs and during if over an extended time frame.

Edited October 25, 2013 by sandymere

[searcher 14]

I would recommend feeding within half hour to forty mins of any hard work out if possible so the muscle is not used to replenish the dogs depleted stores.obviously the dog will be well cooled down by then.

[paulus 26]

I would recommend feeding within half hour to forty mins of any hard work out if possible so the muscle is not used to replenish the dogs depleted stores.obviously the dog will be well cooled down by then.

unfortunately that did not work in my case rhabdomyolysis showed over 27 odd hours later

[paulus 26]

Had an interesting case in which a young person has a history of severe muscle soreness after exercise, presented today with painful swollen arms and shoulders following an intense exercise session. Bloods showed CK (product of muscle breakdown

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine_kinase )

of 54’000 which is high! Diagnosed as having rhabdomyolysis. Discussed with renal consultant who had undertaken a study which showed some people have a problem with their ability to store glucose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen_storage_disease)

with the result when exercising they quickly run short of glucose and as fat takes time to utilise they breakdown muscle protein as an energy source resulting in a predisposition to rhabdomyolysis.

 

So my supposition is; as dogs, much as humans suffering a glycogen storage disease have limited store of glucose, stored as glycogen, they will also have a predisposition to start breaking down muscle as fuel when undertaking high energy glucose dependent sprinting type exercise. This will be exacerbated if stores are not fully loaded.

 

The bottom line, don’t fast your dogs pre working, especially if expecting long testing runs. Use glucose replacement, of your choice, before and after runs and during if over an extended time frame.

but would it not be difficult to prove that the dog was suffering with a problem storing glucose or if it was some other underlying problem? The accepted norm as far as feeding before work goes is approx 6 hrs as any sooner could lead to gastric torsion?. So a teaspoon of honey every day would be a safe bet either way

[searcher 14]

I did not mean for rhabdomyolysis,I meant that's what I do after hard work to replace what's lost.sorry to hear your dog had it to I've just been reading up on it.

[paulus 26]

I did not mean for rhabdomyolysis,I meant that's what I do after hard work to replace what's lost.sorry to hear your dog had it to I've just been reading up on it.

its a chemical reaction that once started will run its course, the key is preventing it starting in the first place far easier to say than do

[socks 32,253]

Good read that ... I have always been a fan of feeding before working the dog ( allowing digestive time obviously) and have said it on here many times ... I couldn't put a hard shift in on an empty stomach and wouldn't expect my dogs to either ..........

[sandymere 8,261]

Socks, yes the old idea of fasting a dog before work is hopefully a thing of the past. Sight hound especially have little in the way of fat stores so if forced to use their limited stokes for any length of time for both basic metabolic needs and also convert some to glucose for brain function etc then be expected to put a hard shift or course in makes very little sense. This just leaves them low on both energy sources which is when they are likely to start on muscle protein causing loose of condition and at worst to increase the chances of developing rhabdomyolysis.

 

Searcher, your right to feed a small amount as soon as the dog has its tongue back in as a small meal within the first half hour is absorbed through what could be described as a fast uptake system and seem to replenish stores to a better degree than with dogs that are forced to wait for an extended time. I would also suggest small pieces of something like an energy bar before and during a long nights lamping, especially if planning to run them again the next night.

 

Paulus I was not suggesting individual dogs have a problem but that as a species they have lesser storage abilities so are like humans with this problem. Having sad that I know their are some breeds with a genetic predisposition so in their cases they could have a link along the same lines as the patient.

[paulus 26]

Socks, yes the old idea of fasting a dog before work is hopefully a thing of the past. Sight hound especially have little in the way of fat stores so if forced to use their limited stokes for any length of time for both basic metabolic needs and also convert some to glucose for brain function etc then be expected to put a hard shift or course in makes very little sense. This just leaves them low on both energy sources which is when they are likely to start on muscle protein causing loose of condition and at worst to increase the chances of developing rhabdomyolysis.

 

Searcher, your right to feed a small amount as soon as the dog has its tongue back in as a small meal within the first half hour is absorbed through what could be described as a fast uptake system and seem to replenish stores to a better degree than with dogs that are forced to wait for an extended time. I would also suggest small pieces of something like an energy bar before and during a long nights lamping, especially if planning to run them again the next night.

 

Paulus I was not suggesting individual dogs have a problem but that as a species they have lesser storage abilities so are like humans with this problem. Having sad that I know their are some breeds with a genetic predisposition so in their cases they could have a link along the same lines as the patient.

but are these breeds associated with the working lurcher or more to with a certain pedigree line

 

Diabetes comes from Greek, and it means a "siphon". Aretus the Cappadocian, a Greek physician during the second century A.D., named the condition diabainein. He described patients who were passing too much water (polyuria) - like a siphon.(coursing thirst perhaps) The word became "diabetes" from the English adoption of the Medieval Latin diabetes.

In 1675, Thomas Willis added mellitus to the term, although it is commonly referred to simply as diabetes. Melin Latin means "honey"; the urine and blood of people with diabetes has excess glucose, and glucose is sweet like honey. Diabetes mellitus could literally mean "siphoning off sweet water".

 

In ancient China people observed that ants would be attracted to some people's urine, because it was sweet. The term "Sweet Urine Disease" was coined.

[sandymere 8,261]

 

 

I did not mean for rhabdomyolysis,I meant that's what I do after hard work to replace what's lost.sorry to hear your dog had it to I've just been reading up on it.

its a chemical reaction that once started will run its course, the key is preventing it starting in the first place far easier to say than do

 

Fluid is the key, IV is best but also encourage oral but avoid those containing potassium, short therapeutic window but reddish/brown to black urine will show within an hour or so as myoglobin will be released quickly, almost straight away, and begin being filtered by the kidneys. So if a dog runs hard and there is any chance it may happen give drink and monitor urine for the next hour or two, 6 hour window to give really effective treatment.

https://www.clinicalkey.com/topics/nephrology/rhabdomyolysis.html