Worker ?

[birddog 1,354]

a mate has a really smart hill bred working strain border collie, he uses it for mountain rescue, it's obedient, attentive, lots of drive, runs all day, cracking coat and feet, obvious good nose, works away or close in, hunts (all be it missing people) its about 24" high (i'm promised a pic of it) i think it would throw good lurchers, question is would you guys call it a worker?

[lifelong cumbrian 1,793]

Which other pure collie would you call a worker. The sheep/cattle collies are doing a job but so is the dog you are talking about. I had a farm bred collie I used for ferreting for years and I am sure the dog you talk about would do a good job ferreting if given the chance. As collies go I would call the dog a worker. The size and ability of the dog, I would think it would be a great dog to put over a grey, grew or whippet.

[shaaark 10,133]

As above, definitely a worker

[Banter 1,751]

i used a dog that was working police attack dog dont know what other skills he had prob sniffed out to odd bit smoke. It a worker an prob better than most

[Giro 2,648]

Sounds a decent stating point, for breeding lurchers..

[Llywelyn the last 31]

I think as long as the collie comes from a good line of hill / farm type collies , then one could get some decent pups . The work he now does demands thought and ability .

 

Big fan of the working Hill / farm collie as opposed to your more trial type stuff - they are often over excitable and too intense . The old collie lines used around a working mixed hill farm in my opinion is as good as any collie type to be found anywhere . Most farmers are poor trainers , and yet they usually have a collie or two who excel despite their owners . Working the farm for cattle and sheep on the hill or around the farm , they usually have to think for themselves . As opposed to receiving coherent instruction ! When they get it wrong , they are usually made aware and therefore learn what is required next time .

Up to 20 years ago I used to help walk 4-500 ewes to market along the country lanes , and the ability of our canine companions to be in the right place at the right time was always uncanny . this was often done instinctively as well as through instruction .

Any dogs that failed to meet the required standards , was either permanently on a chain or worse ! the best were bred from and a pup kept . they see stock from a young age , and learn the rudiments quite early .

These free thinking dogs are in my opinion the kind of dogs one should breed from - An uncle has a small family of decent collies based on an old reliable bitch that was one of the most instinctive dogs I have seen . He use to say that he could send her from the farm and she would deliver the sheep to where she thought he wanted them without his presence .

Best of luck

[alan81 110]

definitely a worker.

[Derek1962 50]

I think every collie had working background in its blood,you could use this collie for the start of your lurcher breeding,its not for me to say that this collie when crossed with a good greyhound are going to produce top class lurchers,as you all know getting a top class all rounder is a chance you take when breeding lurchers,i have a mate that has a small farm up in Dundalk,he has a hill collie,around 24 ins tall,a great cattle and sheep dog,afraid of no farm animal,plenty of gut,takes no nonsense,but when we do a bit of bushing or digging on his land and he tags along with his collie,he collie will beat the cover with the terriers and as good as the terriers,if by chance he comes upon a fox in cover he will kill him quick,he will mark burrows for you and will watch and wait when your out ferretting,and he has plenty of speed if a bunny decides to bolt under the net,so looking at this dog you would think he is the ideal collie to start your breeding of lurchers,but another friend of mine got a greyhound bitch that was fighting on the track and was banned,so when she broke down he put this collie cross her,she produced 10 pups,my friend gave all the pups out to friends to see how they would do,i got one,the pup i got was a black n white bitch,she was,nt bad,she was,nt great,she was ok at lamping,she would take the odd fox only if she had help,but would course them by herself but that was it,she wouldnt chance a grab at charlie,she was a good bitch when out ferretting,she would mark burrows for bunnies,but if a bunny bolted and it got a head start on her she had no hope of picking it up,out of all the pups that my mate bred 3 turned out very good,the three would take fox with ease,would lamp every night if she got the chance and would course hare and had a few single handed hare kills to their credit,3 turned out to be useful lurchers and 4 turned out useless,they wouldnt run to warm them themselves,but that was the chance to take when starting off in the breeding of lurcher,its all luck,

[birddog 1,354]

i wonder if those kind of percentages ( 30% very good, 30% useful and 40% no use ) would be an acceptable risk ? would someone breeding lurcher to lurcher accept a 40% failure rate ?

[beast 1,884]

the only question to my mind is whether this dog has high prey drive? herding is of course just a form of hunting, so a dog which is keen to herd is demonstrating prey drive. then again, a cross to a grey should put plenty of drive into the pups anyway. i would use this dog for lurcher breeding myself, but as has already been said a lot of it boils down to chance (but NOT all of it!!!)

[South hams hunter 8,837]

Could these percentages have been down to the owners rather than the dogs?

[haymin 2,465]

Are you thinking of a mating with your Hancock stew ? I no you have been thinking if a mating when the time comes ?

[shaaark 10,133]

the only question to my mind is whether this dog has high prey drive? herding is of course just a form of hunting, so a dog which is keen to herd is demonstrating prey drive. then again, a cross to a grey should put plenty of drive into the pups anyway. i would use this dog for lurcher breeding myself, but as has already been said a lot of it boils down to chance (but NOT all of it!!!)

Birddog's already given a rundown of the dog's qualities, drive being one of them, I think the dog sounds a very good worker and definitely worth putting into a line of lurchers. And I don't think a 40% failure rate would happen, depending on what type of work the resulting pups would be worked at. If people are talking about fox, 40% failure rate sounds about average to me

Edited October 23, 2013 by shaaark

[birddog 1,354]

this is all getting quite good after a hypothetical conversation between mates, he understands drive, stamina and conditioning.......he used to race huskies!! (he never beat them lol) although i have been offered a well bred greyhound bitch............

 

shaark's picked up on something i was thinking, as foxing is a specialist thing and requires specific qualities in a dog, i'd imagine that unless your breeding for foxing from specialist dogs that 40% failure rate would be the norm but i'd imagine 1st x collie success rates as rabbiters would be much higher especially in the right hands

 

south h h.....i agree that entering especially with foxes could influence success rates

 

jim.....i'd love to breed jazz but maybe no with a collie, i've narrowed it down to 2 but it's all down to time, i work too much, not like you self employed guys that take days off when you want eh

[haymin 2,465]

Just like today ?,work for living don't live to work that's me stew . As you say when the times right you are a busy man?