Damage To Swift Moderator By Hmr Bullet

[kenj 131]

I was lined up on a rabbit and squeezed the trigger of my CZ452 HMR, when there was a click, a long delay and a bang, with smoke coming from the breech/bolt area. The rabbit was still there, so ejected the cartridge case and saw a long split in the neck, something I've had before. Assuming the bullet had fallen short, I chambered the next round and fired, to be met by a firework display out of the Swift moderator and the sound of multiple ricochets. I unscrewed the mod and could see a clear path through, then removed the bolt and the bore looked fine.

There were still rabbits out and shot another three out to 120 yards, all head shots. Then another presented at yards and lined up for an easy head shot, only for it to puff up dirt ahead near it's tail. Miles out. I set up a target at 50 yards and fired two shots, both left and below centre 20 mm apart, The next shot took out the metal target stake, above and to the right 50 mm off centre. I took the mod off and it now rattled. This is what I found.

The end baffle was chewed up, the end ali spacer was crushed and most of the baffles had a been damaged by exiting bullets. I've had the click-bang, split cases before on the HMR Remmingtons and usually hit the target, although some have dropped short, but this time the bullet must have stopped in the barrel, or the moderator. The bore and the crown look OK, with the Boresnake weight dropping through. I think Swift have gone out of business, so shall make a new spacer and some baffles, if need be.

[3175darren 1,093]

Bloody hell lucky man that's all that has happened,

[DeerhoundLurcherMan 997]

I have no experience of the HMR but even so I wouldn't have assumed the first bullet had fallen short, I would have defiantly checked the barrel before loading another........

[charlie caller 3,654]

Sorry to hear that mate, but I am afraid this is another instance to add to the growing list of hmr horror stories, I hope it does not happen but I am afraid it is only a matter of time before somebody is injured by one of these.

[willum 89]

a mate of mine had some hornadaday rounds for his hmr when we were out last week we noticed splits in the neck ofnthe casing thought it mite be scoring them when chambering but checked the box and there were quite a few in there. Checked a brand new lot and they were the same so these are going back to the dealer that sold them. To add the ones that were split would fire ok but were a little off target but not to much

 

[dadioles 68]

First point is don't you think you should have asked yourself a few questions after what may have been the first misfire? It sound a bit negligent to have just carried on.

 

That damage to your moderator was not caused directly by a bullet with a split case. Poor maintenance, lack of cleaning, badly fitted or faulty moderator or quite possible a bullet (or mud?) stuck in the barrel or moderator after a partial ignition is more likely.

 

Are you really serious about re-using the moderator and making some new baffles or is this a wind up? For goodness sake a SAK or similar is adequate and cheap enough.

 

If ever a shot fired does not sound or feel quite right the gun needs careful checking and if that means an end to that days shooting then so be it. You got off lightly.

 

I have seen a lot of cracked cases after firing my hmr but not been aware of a problem in unfired rounds. The biggest problem with a case that is not air tight is damp which may affect the charge and give you an inconsistent burn. Store the bullets carefully in a dry place. The breech of a decent quality and well maintained rifle is more than capable of safely containing any weaknesses in rimfire cartridges.

 

Something about your story has to either be made up as a teaser or you are a complete idiot, maybe I am just gullible? "... I chambered the next round and fired, to be met by a firework display out of the Swift moderator and the sound of multiple ricochets. I unscrewed the mod and could see a clear path through, then removed the bolt and the bore looked fine. There were still rabbits out and shot another three out to 120 yards, all head shots...."

[cameroncharles 2]

You looked up the bore before removing the bolt,blimey brother,glad your around to tell the story! Good lesson for everyone bud

[Alsone 789]

You looked up the bore before removing the bolt,blimey brother,glad your around to tell the story! Good lesson for everyone bud

 

 

Yep you should always clear a rifle properly before going anywhere near the business end.

 

Magazine off, cycle the bolt to eject the one in the chamber, further 3 cycles after nothing comes out, remove the bolt only then check the bore.....

 

Anything else and you my be joining those previous bunnys in heaven!

 

On a separate subject... I also have a little hard time believing a cracked case could cause damage to the mod. At the end of the day the bullet goes up the barrel straight - it has no choice due to its physical restriction and the rifling. Now if it hits something in the moderator, then yep it might deflect and cause damage. I would think the worst thing you're going to get from a cracked case is reduced velocity and a dirty barrel plus a danger of minute copper fragments being deposited along the bore.

 

I think it more likely you either had debris in the mod or a baffle in the mod had come loose and dropped out of alignment before you took the shot.

 

I too would tend towards a new mod as the slightest misalignment in a rebuild and you're back to square one.

[rimmer 33]

The first shot was a hang fire not a miss fire, not common but they do happen, and as such when it finally went the pressure could have spiked or dropped because of an unpredictable burn of the powder the bullet may not have stabilized and may have clipped the mod on the way out, the second shot sounds like it fully connected with the damaged part of the mod, that is the point where you should have stopped, had the next bullet been obstructed in the barrel by bits of the mod the story could have been sad.

It is very unlikely that the first bullet remained in the barrel or the mod, if it had been in the barrel it would have been nasty and if it was stil in the mod the mod would be in alot worse shape than it is.

Edited July 30, 2013 by rimmer

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well before calling the lad an idiot, perhaps you should learn to read, he took the moderator off and looked up it, THEN removed the bolt and looked up the bore, now who sounds silly eh? the cause of this is quite simple, he has had a round lodged in the barrel, fired the next round and was treated to a firework display, yes agreed he should have checked before chambering another round, after the click and delay, as I would have, assuming a problem, as I said earlier just another horror story to add to the catalogue of hmr incidents, personally I would not have one given to me.

[rimmer 33]

Well before calling the lad an idiot, perhaps you should learn to read, he took the moderator off and looked up it, THEN removed the bolt and looked up the bore, now who sounds silly eh? the cause of this is quite simple, he has had a round lodged in the barrel, fired the next round and was treated to a firework display, yes agreed he should have checked before chambering another round, after the click and delay, as I would have, assuming a problem, as I said earlier just another horror story to add to the catalogue of hmr incidents, personally I would not have one given to me.

Very doubtful

[charlie caller 3,654]

 

Well before calling the lad an idiot, perhaps you should learn to read, he took the moderator off and looked up it, THEN removed the bolt and looked up the bore, now who sounds silly eh? the cause of this is quite simple, he has had a round lodged in the barrel, fired the next round and was treated to a firework display, yes agreed he should have checked before chambering another round, after the click and delay, as I would have, assuming a problem, as I said earlier just another horror story to add to the catalogue of hmr incidents, personally I would not have one given to me.

Very doubtful

 

Really, well do enlighten us and tell us where you think the bullet from the first hangfire went then?

[Alsone 789]

 

 

Well before calling the lad an idiot, perhaps you should learn to read, he took the moderator off and looked up it, THEN removed the bolt and looked up the bore, now who sounds silly eh? the cause of this is quite simple, he has had a round lodged in the barrel, fired the next round and was treated to a firework display, yes agreed he should have checked before chambering another round, after the click and delay, as I would have, assuming a problem, as I said earlier just another horror story to add to the catalogue of hmr incidents, personally I would not have one given to me.

Very doubtful

 

Really, well do enlighten us and tell us where you think the bullet from the first hangfire went then?

 

 

 

I agree on the "idiot" point. It was a bit harsh which is why I never used that phraseology. Besides we all make mistakes, even stupid ones!

 

As for the hang fire, I'd expect it went no-where. That's what a hang fire is, the primer fails to initialise so the bullet never fires.

 

When it did fire it 2nd time around, it would have had to go off with virtually no pressure to leave the bullet still in the barrel. Even at 5 foot pounds an air pistol will throw a pellet 40 metres or so. You could probably blow a 20gr bullet up a barrel with 2ft lbs.

 

Highly unlikely the misfire left a bullet lodged in the barrel.

 

When a bullet or cartridge that has hung fires goes off on a 2nd strike, its usually no different to a normal firing. If the powders damp, you may get reduced performance. But I've never heard of a bullet crawling up a barrel. Nor stopping dead inside without there 1st being a physical obstruction in the barrel.

 

My best guess is there was a baffle already out of alignment when the 2nd shot was taken and the 2nd bullet simply hit the baffle.

[kenj 131]

Guessed I'd get some flack, but put it on the forum, as split cases are common with HMR. I was not aware of the problem, until it was raised on here and checked those in my pocket, after firing. I always try to pick up my spent cases to avoid cattle accidentally ingesting them. Previously I'd put click-bang misfires down to dodgy ammo. Most times I've hit the rabbit, where I've aimed, or seen the round fall short. It has been common enough for me not to worry about it. All my ammo is stored in the safe, in my house, so no dampness. .22lr winchester sub rounds in my semi auto have given me far greater problems, than the HMR.

Regarding the mod not being clean, I strip it after every box of 50, just to keep it free and easy to strip. It only takes minutes with the right tools.

The rifle is boresnaked after every outing, even if only one shot is fired. This means the mod comes off and back on each time, so not lose. I'd already fired three shots and killed three rabbits with head shots, before the misfire.

Yes, in hindsight, following such a delay in the round firing, I should have and will in future check to make sure the bullet is not still in the barrel. This was the aim of the post, to let others be aware of the possibility. The bullet was obviously still there and was impacted by the following round. My description of fireworks was my best way of saying what I saw, like wise the ricochet sounds. After this, I removed the mod and it was clear. I took out the bolt, checked the breech and looked up the bore, breech end and crown end. The clip was empty.

I carried on firing and all seemed fine, but the spacer nearest to the barrel had collapsed with the impact and the end baffle come lose and moved across. The design of the mod holds all the baffles in place, unless something like this happens. The split cases only show up after firing.

[danw 1,748]

Not particularly on topic but I have seen 2 handguns blown apart back in the day by bullets lodging in their barrel and both times it came down to the use of progressive reloading presses loading rounds with a primer but no powder the primer had just enough go to push the bullet out of the case but not out of the barrel