....

[Mosby 355]

In the wild, where form almost always follows function, canines have scissor bites. So breeding without the intent of eliminating such a fault is going backwards. The dog can still be valuable to a program but I'd be breeding the trait out. I'd still grab a pup even with a bad bite if it's parents had the rest of the package, but I'd put it to workers with better jaws and move that bite out of the program as fast as I could.

[MainAttraction! 83]

If mother nature is the standard for our dog breeding programs I say F#$K mother nature!

Most of us breed WAY better animals that lb per lb KICK THE DOG SH%T out of her animals!

 

What is a "good" bite? One where all the teeth fit together perfectly? Is that it? Is that all that has to be to earn the seal of approval in ones breeding program?

 

I go back to my 1st comment on this topic. Would you breed from the dog with a scissor bite that can't bust a grape, or the undershot dog that bites like a gator!

Bite, or teeth alignment to me gets judged no different than any other physical attribute.

 

What is the function of a good bite? To hold on, be the most important weapon in a dogs arsenal necessary for inflicted lethal damage?

If a dog bites like a gator obviously it has a good bite irregardless of what your orthodontist tells you.

[VOON 1,313]

[BANNED TEXT] difference does it make, they either work till there dug to, then there worthy of breeding or they don't.....looks aint the bar we measure terriers by..yes, you would wish they were lookers but you wouldnt knock them on they head if they weren't.....if they wont work......no breedy.......work is the barometer.........end of

[digger. 615]

i havnt read all the posts here no point realy but undershot v perfect there is not 1 diffrence ok sorry yes there is,, 1 is an ugly cnut the other is pretty and will get u rosettes who gives a toss what they look like ok its good to have a good looker that works well but breeding to make them look ok is a joke who gives a monkeys what they look like

[bobby blackheart 1,209]

looking around the welsh yesterday-the same people tip up with a dog for every class-seen the same people at least 6 times this season-immaculate looking,trimmed,trained to prance about-gassy with other dogs-were does someone male/female get the time to graft 10/12 terriers?because they look to perfect to of even worked a rat-the people showing them are dressed up to the nines-driving 30 grand dog buses-funny but you dont see the same dogs next season-all the black dogs looked like kc black lakies-pleasing on the eye for sure-but bet my ass they cant preform below ground-its all about the money these days-been watching these folk for 10 yrs or more-and the dogs they have now-bear no resembalance to what they had 5 yrs ago-worker x worker?NO looker x looker these days with no interest in ability below ground-when you start worrying HOW a terrier LOOKS-THEN THE END GAME IS LOST IMHO.atb bobby

[uru 341]

.

Edited September 15, 2017 by uru

[Cleanspade 3,322]

i thought this was about undershot or scissor bite. i would take a dog with less than perfect comfomation. and if it worked i would breed off it. but some faults are a problem. further down the line. . nature took millions of years to produce the mouth that is best for killing and eating. yet some on here know better. ive seen breeding that went down that road and some pups where that bad they couldnt suckle. and ended up culls without having a chance to prove themselves . what if these pups where the best in the litter. no one will ever know. and that brings the percentage down . when trying to produce workers. the teath will be first to go if the bite is badly shot. once one goes. its the domino effect. i'm not knocking good working terriers with undershot mouths. but its advisable to breed out ' rather than fix this problem or we are just as bad as show /kc. ignoring things that will be a problem further down the line

[foxtails 272]

undershot for me,everytime, aslong as it worked 100% day in day out, that'l do me

[the_stig 6,614]

looking around the welsh yesterday-the same people tip up with a dog for every class-seen the same people at least 6 times this season-immaculate looking,trimmed,trained to prance about-gassy with other dogs-were does someone male/female get the time to graft 10/12 terriers?because they look to perfect to of even worked a rat-the people showing them are dressed up to the nines-driving 30 grand dog buses-funny but you dont see the same dogs next season-all the black dogs looked like kc black lakies-pleasing on the eye for sure-but bet my ass they cant preform below ground-its all about the money these days-been watching these folk for 10 yrs or more-and the dogs they have now-bear no resembalance to what they had 5 yrs ago-worker x worker?NO looker x looker these days with no interest in ability below ground-when you start worrying HOW a terrier LOOKS-THEN THE END GAME IS LOST IMHO.atb bobby

shows and working terriers today are 2 different types of terrier ---------- let the show people get on with it... true working lads and working terriers will always come through...the last show I judged a couple of year ago ---- a red kc type lakie came in the entered class I said to the woman what does it work---she said badger ..

Edited June 18, 2013 by the_stig

[Lamp Lady 4]

My other half and I had an undershot patterdale called BOMBER was the best diggin dog around if u knew him u wud know I have his daughter BAMBER also undershot a proper nutty game bitch. The looks don't matter its the work! I wud always go with a funny lookin dog/bitch out of the Toddy and Nancy line any day the funnier lookin the harder the dog! My opinion anyways. Each to their own like.

[jawn 449]

I've never been to a dog show in my life.......or bred with the hope of getting some ribbon. I will cull undershot dogs from my breeding program because it can hinder performance. If from a litter of six dogs I can only expect two workers.....I would cull the parents.

 

Culling obviously doesn't stop at whelping. I removed two adult dogs and one prospect from the roster last week all with correct bites. One had three seasons under her belt. It strikes me as odd that to justify breeding the undershot worker..... it has from the beginning of this thread only been compared to a dog with a correct bite that can't bust a grape.... or refuses to work.... as if.... those two choices are the only ones that exist.lol

 

Mosby is right.....nature has done a fair amount of the heavy lifting without regard for our oppinions or trophies. The correct bite is correct for a reason and it hasn't got a thing to do with ribbons.

 

If I have a spot on the roster..... I will hunt an undershot dog. But I see absolutely ZERO reason to breed it when I have dogs with correct bites that have proven themselves year in and year out.

 

I think the fact that this entire debate has revolved around the idea that you either choose an undershot WORKER or a correct piece of sh*t says an awful lot.lol

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

I've never been to a dog show in my life.......or bred with the hope of getting some ribbon. I will cull undershot dogs from my breeding program because it can hinder performance. If from a litter of six dogs I can only expect two workers.....I would cull the parents.

 

Culling obviously doesn't stop at whelping. I removed two adult dogs and one prospect from the roster last week all with correct bites. One had three seasons under her belt. It strikes me as odd that to justify breeding the undershot worker..... it has from the beginning of this thread only been compared to a dog with a correct bite that can't bust a grape.... or refuses to work.... as if.... those two choices are the only ones that exist.lol

 

Mosby is right.....nature has done a fair amount of the heavy lifting without regard for our oppinions or trophies. The correct bite is correct for a reason and it hasn't got a thing to do with ribbons.

 

If I have a spot on the roster..... I will hunt an undershot dog. But I see absolutely ZERO reason to breed it when I have dogs with correct bites that have proven themselves year in and year out.

 

I think the fact that this entire debate has revolved around the idea that you either choose an undershot WORKER or a correct piece of sh*t says an awful lot.lol

undershot workers deserve to live the same as correct scissor bite dogs, nobody said theyd choose an undershot worker because at pups nobody knows how they will turn out, they take the same chance with the undershot dogs as with correct bites to rear them form pups. yes undershot dogs deserve to be culled if they don't make it as a worker nothing else. same as scissor bite non workers

[Glyn..... 5,199]

i'm sorry but the wild canidae argument is a bit weak when talking working dogs and even further off the mark when talking working terriers, your not going to find many wolves, coyotes or even ferals such as dingo's risking injury every time they hunt... so we've selected dogs that work and work well we have produced types, and if a dog can do what is the hardest of jobs week in week out , can feed and breed without help then i for one don't care if its teeth are a bit out, i'm glad i've never culled a dog/pup for a undershot mouth, or a prick ear or curly tail or a color ...those who want help from nature show me your digging wolves

Edited June 20, 2013 by Glyn.....

[bobby blackheart 1,209]

i'm sorry but the wild canidae argument is a bit weak when talking working dogs and even further off the mark when talking working terriers, your not going to find many wolves, coyotes or even ferals such as dingo's risking injury every time they hunt... so we've selected dogs that work and work well we have produced types, and if a dog can do what is the hardest of jobs week in week out , can feed and breed without help then i for one don't care if its teeth are a bit out, i'm glad i've never culled a dog/pup for a undershot mouth, or a prick ear or curly tail or a color ...those who want help from nature show me your digging wolves

quality that glyn

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

nature gave us the wolf man took this and improved/developed it into a better controllable animal called the dog a selfless warrior/companion that would die to protect us where the wolf would run a mile in the opposite direction.