Mentoring Condition - West Mercia

[Dagben77 2]

Hi Folks,

 

Getting a little frustrated with the inconsistency of West-Mercia Firearms Lic Dept. When I was granted my FAC last year with the mentoring conditions on all calibres, my FEO told me that all I would need to do to get this lifted is to go out a few times with an experienced shooter and get them to write a letter confirming that they are happy with my general attitude, competence and handling etc of firearms. I got this done pretty quickly and sent the letter off to Malvern Police station with my FAC. I waited a few days for a response to be told that they wouldn't lift the condition on all calibres, just 22LR! Shelly from Malvern stated that they would like to see 6 months until they would lift it.

 

I have 22LR, 17HMR & 223 on my ticket and have a rifle for each slot. I have done hundreds of rounds through the rifles and shoot regularly with others and solo. I resent my ticket in to have the conditions lifted. I had to wait over 2 weeks before they looked at it and then decided to only lift the condition on the 17HMR! What is there problem?!? They are now saying "We like to see 12 months"!!! So inconsistent! and this is the same person (Shelly) at Malvern!

 

I'm safe, I'm competent, I even sodding reload! Every time I want to test some loads, I have to drive over an hour to the nearest range that one of my mentors can meet me at and then there's the cost of the range.

 

I'm regularly told that these mentoring conditions aren't actually lawful and I wouldn't face prosecution if I breach these conditions. I would probably have my ticket and firearms taken from me but I'd actually be breaking no law. Is there a way I can this bloody thing lifted sooner?

[J Darcy 5,871]

Hi Folks,

 

Getting a little frustrated with the inconsistency of West-Mercia Firearms Lic Dept. When I was granted my FAC last year with the mentoring conditions on all calibres, my FEO told me that all I would need to do to get this lifted is to go out a few times with an experienced shooter and get them to write a letter confirming that they are happy with my general attitude, competence and handling etc of firearms. I got this done pretty quickly and sent the letter off to Malvern Police station with my FAC. I waited a few days for a response to be told that they wouldn't lift the condition on all calibres, just 22LR! Shelly from Malvern stated that they would like to see 6 months until they would lift it.

 

I have 22LR, 17HMR & 223 on my ticket and have a rifle for each slot. I have done hundreds of rounds through the rifles and shoot regularly with others and solo. I resent my ticket in to have the conditions lifted. I had to wait over 2 weeks before they looked at it and then decided to only lift the condition on the 17HMR! What is there problem?!? They are now saying "We like to see 12 months"!!! So inconsistent! and this is the same person (Shelly) at Malvern!

 

I'm safe, I'm competent, I even sodding reload! Every time I want to test some loads, I have to drive over an hour to the nearest range that one of my mentors can meet me at and then there's the cost of the range.

 

I'm regularly told that these mentoring conditions aren't actually lawful and I wouldn't face prosecution if I breach these conditions. I would probably have my ticket and firearms taken from me but I'd actually be breaking no law. Is there a way I can this bloody thing lifted sooner?

Write them a letter, not an arsey one, just a covering letter....

[Dagben77 2]

 

Hi Folks,

 

Getting a little frustrated with the inconsistency of West-Mercia Firearms Lic Dept. When I was granted my FAC last year with the mentoring conditions on all calibres, my FEO told me that all I would need to do to get this lifted is to go out a few times with an experienced shooter and get them to write a letter confirming that they are happy with my general attitude, competence and handling etc of firearms. I got this done pretty quickly and sent the letter off to Malvern Police station with my FAC. I waited a few days for a response to be told that they wouldn't lift the condition on all calibres, just 22LR! Shelly from Malvern stated that they would like to see 6 months until they would lift it.

 

I have 22LR, 17HMR & 223 on my ticket and have a rifle for each slot. I have done hundreds of rounds through the rifles and shoot regularly with others and solo. I resent my ticket in to have the conditions lifted. I had to wait over 2 weeks before they looked at it and then decided to only lift the condition on the 17HMR! What is there problem?!? They are now saying "We like to see 12 months"!!! So inconsistent! and this is the same person (Shelly) at Malvern!

 

I'm safe, I'm competent, I even sodding reload! Every time I want to test some loads, I have to drive over an hour to the nearest range that one of my mentors can meet me at and then there's the cost of the range.

 

I'm regularly told that these mentoring conditions aren't actually lawful and I wouldn't face prosecution if I breach these conditions. I would probably have my ticket and firearms taken from me but I'd actually be breaking no law. Is there a way I can this bloody thing lifted sooner?

Write them a letter, not an arsey one, just a covering letter....

I did. I explained all of the above!

[b53hunt 15]

when they want to be petty about it they are so if you write another letter and they say the same just dont let it bother you and just write a letter at 12months then if they extend it again ask them what the problem is but what ever you do dont be off hand worse think to do they record everything atb

[Beefbeefbeef 10]

On a related topic, I've just had a FAC for a .17HMR granted by West Mercia and they put a mentoring/ supervisory condition on it. Not mentioned by the officer who came to my house. No explanation. No information on how to apply to have it lifted. Bizarre. Luckily the local gamekeeper lives nearby and he is happy to help.

 

Perhaps they are being told to toughen up their system.

[roe-buck 63]

Its a load of TAT mate,aren't you in BASC or SACS or something.Get onto them if you are and they'll sort it out.They are just leading you up the garden path

!,

[woz 260]

There's one lad in the office that actually understands fire arms and the law the rest are just paper pushers that haven't really a clue. Sleek to your feo on the phone and explain the situation. Normally there fairly cool

[roe-buck 63]

There's nothing in the Home Office guidelines that even require you to have a Mentor.Its just that particular force trying to be clever.It just reinforces the point that you really need to be in one Shooting Organisation or another, to represent you when you get difficulties.It normally just takes a phone call from them and it'd be sorted.Full credit to Hunting Life for offering a good discount on membership of SACS.Join!

Edited April 16, 2013 by roe-buck

[charlie caller 3,654]

There's nothing in the Home Office guidelines that even require you to have a Mentor.Its just that particular force trying to be clever.It just reinforces the point that you really need to be in one Shooting Organisation or another, to represent you when you get difficulties.It normally just takes a phone call from them and it'd be sorted.Full credit to Hunting Life for offering a good discount on membership of SACS.Join!

No there isnt, however the police are perfectly entitled to put whatever condition they like on your certificate,and yes it is fecking annoying,BUT demanding,breaching conditions ect is not the way forward,a polite assertive manner will get you a lot further,keep shooting your rifles,keep putting ammo through them and keep asking,presumably you have a mentor who has already signed you off as competent,so do your 12 months and get another letter from him/her stating that in there opinion you are now ready for an open certificate,ask for that,stating that you have satisfied their 12 month probationary period,and stick to your guns.good luck.

[engraver 44]

Have you had a caution at any point regarding anything unlawfull in the past?

[roe-buck 63]

 

There's nothing in the Home Office guidelines that even require you to have a Mentor.Its just that particular force trying to be clever.It just reinforces the point that you really need to be in one Shooting Organisation or another, to represent you when you get difficulties.It normally just takes a phone call from them and it'd be sorted.Full credit to Hunting Life for offering a good discount on membership of SACS.Join!

No there isnt, however the police are perfectly entitled to put whatever condition they like on your certificate,and yes it is fecking annoying,BUT demanding,breaching conditions ect is not the way forward,a polite assertive manner will get you a lot further,keep shooting your rifles,keep putting ammo through them and keep asking,presumably you have a mentor who has already signed you off as competent,so do your 12 months and get another letter from him/her stating that in there opinion you are now ready for an open certificate,ask for that,stating that you have satisfied their 12 month probationary period,and stick to your guns.good luck.

No their not entitled to put whatever condition they want on your certificate!They are bound by the laws of this land just the same as you or I.No one is saying demand anything!I was only at a BASC open evening last week and Bill Harriman broached this very subject of one Constabualry wanting ,this and another a different thing! Its not legal ,as simple as that.By being issued a certificate you have satisfied the criteria that you are a fit and proper person to hold and use firearms.Like I said join a reputable Fieldsports organisation and they will broach the subject for you.BASC definitely has the best Firearms consultative team in the UK or even Europe for that matter!

Edited April 16, 2013 by roe-buck

[charlie caller 3,654]

Listen mate I think it stinks dont get me wrong,but home office guidelines are just that guidelines,they are not the LAW,so I am afraid within reason the police CAN put down any additional conditions they like,and the op was mentioning having been told that breaching his conditions is not breaking the law,OH yes it is,it is an offence to breach any conditions set out by the chief officer of police,so I was merely trying to steer him away from any misguided and quite frankly stupid advice he has been given to the contrary.

[firepower 68]

They make it up as they go along, guidelines my arse. That said mentorship can be a good idea as just bobbing off with a rifle with no experience can be a very dangerous thing. If you are a member of BASC or any other organisation them get in touch on your behalf and you may see movement in a favourable direction

[Dagben77 2]

Listen mate I think it stinks dont get me wrong,but home office guidelines are just that guidelines,they are not the LAW,so I am afraid within reason the police CAN put down any additional conditions they like,and the op was mentioning having been told that breaching his conditions is not breaking the law,OH yes it is,it is an offence to breach any conditions set out by the chief officer of police,so I was merely trying to steer him away from any misguided and quite frankly stupid advice he has been given to the contrary.

 

The "misguided and quite frankly stupid advice" you speak of, was confirmed by the Firearms Lic Dept at Malvern. Unfortunately, they are not obliged to issue me with a FAC and for that reason alone, they could also take it away for no reason. I would not face criminal charges but would probably have my ticket and rifles taken off me. As I now reload, there will be no more ammo going on my ticket. I hope this doesn't harm my case in 6 months time.

[charlie caller 3,654]

You may not face criminal charges for it,but if you read your certificate,it clearly states,it is an OFFENCE not to comply with any conditions set out by the chief officer of police,and as regards ammo mate,when you go and buy your bullets just ask the rfd to put them down on your ticket,thats what I do anyway,even though in some areas ie Derbyshire they dont put them on your ticket,but travel to west yorkshire and try buying bullets there without having them on your ticket