Firearm Variation .17 Winchester Super Mag

[bob_mullis 0]

go on a one day basc fox/centerfire day and put in a variation for 17Hornet.

[Alsone 789]

 

 

mmmm they can't get hmr ammo right yet there building a more powerfull rimfire??? i would go hornet myself and stsrt reloading. the same noies just as safe.

mike

 

The HMR is a bastardised WMR with neck issues, thats the problem.

 

The Win Mag is a Brand New Cartridge built from scratch

is not the 17 win mag a 22 win mag necked down simular to the 17hmr being a necked down 22 wmr

 

 

The new .17 WSM is a .27 calibre case necked down to take a .17 calibre bullet. It was originally used in nail guns and the ammo is reported to have very little in common with the .17 hmr eg. its reported to have little recoil, be quiet and be extremely wind resistant.

 

It also is reported to be released at a cost of around $17 per 50 in the USA.

 

 

 

This picture I linked off Google show the difference,

 

From Right to Left,

 

Far right is .22 Hornet, the red and silver tipped bullets next are .17 WSM, 4th rfom the right is .17 hmr then I believe its .22 mag and .22lr.

 

You can see straight away that the casing on .17 WSM is both longer and fatter than .17 HMR.

 

 

go on a one day basc fox/centerfire day and put in a variation for 17Hornet.

 

Why?

 

The new .17 WSM outperforms the .22 Hornet in many aspects!!!

 

It has the same energy at 200 yards as .17hmr has at the muzzle!!!

 

It's reported to be quiet, low recoil and 1/2 MOA on accuracy.

 

The energy at 250 yds is only 13 ft lbs less than the .22 Hornet Centrefire!!!

 

It has around 1/2 the bullet drop of the .22 Hornet, the .22 WMR or .17 HMR eg at 250yds reported drop is just 7.8 inches compared to 13.9 inches on .22 Hornet and around 1/2 the wind deflection.

 

At least according to this video on Youtube:

 

 

 

Finally, apart from the cheap ammo, at least some of the firearms are cheap also. The US price of the new savage chambered for this is $395!!

 

BTW you can't convert existing rimfires to this as I understand it needs centrefire breach charcateristics to handle the pressures eg locking lugs on the bolt etc.

 

Personally, I think this round is the next big think because if it lives up to the hype, there doesn't seem to be a cartridge below .223 that can touch it on either centre or rimfire for all round performance and I've heard some people suggest that even .223 is under threat!

 

 

 

 

 

[Deker 3,450]

 

 

 

The new .17 WSM is a .27 calibre case necked down to take a .17 calibre bullet. NOT QUITE It was originally used in nail guns and the ammo is reported to have very little in common with the .17 hmr eg. its reported to have little recoil, be quiet and be extremely wind resistant.

 

It also is reported to be released at a cost of around $17 per 50 in the USA.

 

 

 

This picture I linked off Google show the difference,

 

From Right to Left,

 

Far right is .22 Hornet, the red and silver tipped bullets next are .17 WSM, 4th rfom the right is .17 hmr then I believe its .22 mag and .22lr.

 

You can see straight away that the casing on .17 WSM is both longer and fatter than .17 HMR.

 

 

go on a one day basc fox/centerfire day and put in a variation for 17Hornet.

 

Why?

 

The new .17 WSM outperforms the .22 Hornet in many aspects!!!

 

It has the same energy at 200 yards as .17hmr has at the muzzle!!!

 

It's reported to be quiet, low recoil and 1/2 MOA on accuracy.

 

The energy at 250 yds is only 13 ft lbs less than the .22 Hornet Centrefire!!!

 

It has around 1/2 the bullet drop of the .22 Hornet, the .22 WMR or .17 HMR eg at 250yds reported drop is just 7.8 inches compared to 13.9 inches on .22 Hornet and around 1/2 the wind deflection.

 

At least according to this video on Youtube:

 

 

 

Finally, apart from the cheap ammo, at least some of the firearms are cheap also. The US price of the new savage chambered for this is $395!!

 

BTW you can't convert existing rimfires to this as I understand it needs centrefire breach charcateristics to handle the pressures eg locking lugs on the bolt etc.

 

Personally, I think this round is the next big think because if it lives up to the hype, there doesn't seem to be a cartridge below .223 that can touch it on either centre or rimfire for all round performance and I've heard some people suggest that even .223 is under threat!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems you have cut and pasted a lot of web information, here is some you missed! The .17 WSM is NOT simply a necked down .27 nail gun case!

 

"Believe it or not, Winchester’s new .17 Win Super Mag evolved from a “parent case” originally developed for .27-caliber powder-actuated concrete nail guns. Winchester has produced millions of nail gun blanks in .22, .25, and .27 calibers. This new .17 Win Super Mag is derived from Winchester’s .27-cal nail gun blank, necked down to .17-caliber and strengthened with a thicker head and stronger case-walls. With case-walls that are 50% thicker than those on 17 HMR cartridges, the .17 Win Super Mag can operate at 33,000 psi. By contrast, the 17 HMR maxes out at 26,000 psi."

 

Edited May 14, 2013 by Deker

[paulus 26]

theres some wicked nail guns about

 

[Alsone 789]

 

The new .17 WSM is a .27 calibre case necked down to take a .17 calibre bullet. NOT QUITE It was originally used in nail guns and the ammo is reported to have very little in common with the .17 hmr eg. its reported to have little recoil, be quiet and be extremely wind resistant.

 

Seems you have cut and pasted a lot of web information, here is some you missed! The .17 WSM is NOT simply a necked down .27 nail gun case!

"Believe it or not, Winchester’s new .17 Win Super Mag evolved from a “parent case” originally developed for .27-caliber powder-actuated concrete nail guns. Winchester has produced millions of nail gun blanks in .22, .25, and .27 calibers. This new .17 Win Super Mag is derived from Winchester’s .27-cal nail gun blank, necked down to .17-caliber and strengthened with a thicker head and stronger case-walls. With case-walls that are 50% thicker than those on 17 HMR cartridges, the .17 Win Super Mag can operate at 33,000 psi. By contrast, the 17 HMR maxes out at 26,000 psi."

 

 

 

It seems I stand corrected.

 

I knew about the thicker walls as I believe pressures are around 33,000 psi on the .17 WSM. I believe thats around 8,000 psi more than HMR, hence the centrefire style breach features.

 

I should probably correct myself as well when I said it would probably obsolete ALL calibres below .223 if it matches it's stated performance as in actual fact .22LR will always survive because of the fact that its near silent with subs and so the gun of choice for close range near housing at night and it doesn't turn rabbits inside out, although I would suggest that anyone shooting rabbits for meat should be head shooting. The other calibres below .223, all seem pointless though if this lives up to its billing as .22 hornet in a .17 rimfire package.

 

[Alsone 789]

theres some wicked nail guns about

 

 

Ha ha. Local firearms dept would love that if it actually existed as much as government loves 3D printers!

[Deker 3,450]

 

 

The new .17 WSM is a .27 calibre case necked down to take a .17 calibre bullet. NOT QUITE It was originally used in nail guns and the ammo is reported to have very little in common with the .17 hmr eg. its reported to have little recoil, be quiet and be extremely wind resistant.

 

Seems you have cut and pasted a lot of web information, here is some you missed! The .17 WSM is NOT simply a necked down .27 nail gun case!

"Believe it or not, Winchester’s new .17 Win Super Mag evolved from a “parent case” originally developed for .27-caliber powder-actuated concrete nail guns. Winchester has produced millions of nail gun blanks in .22, .25, and .27 calibers. This new .17 Win Super Mag is derived from Winchester’s .27-cal nail gun blank, necked down to .17-caliber and strengthened with a thicker head and stronger case-walls. With case-walls that are 50% thicker than those on 17 HMR cartridges, the .17 Win Super Mag can operate at 33,000 psi. By contrast, the 17 HMR maxes out at 26,000 psi."

 

 

 

It seems I stand corrected.

 

I knew about the thicker walls as I believe pressures are around 33,000 psi on the .17 WSM. I believe thats around 8,000 psi more than HMR, hence the centrefire style breach features.

 

I should probably correct myself as well when I said it would probably obsolete ALL calibres below .223 if it matches it's stated performance as in actual fact .22LR will always survive because of the fact that its near silent with subs and so the gun of choice for close range near housing at night and it doesn't turn rabbits inside out, although I would suggest that anyone shooting rabbits for meat should be head shooting. The other calibres below .223, all seem pointless though if this lives up to its billing as .22 hornet in a .17 rimfire package.

 

 

 

I'm not having a go here, the 17WSM does seem to have a bit going for it on the face of things, but being the sceptical old bugger I am I will be more interested when we actually see them and get some real answers on performance and pricing rather than Marketing led promotion which forms the majority of information currently available.

[Alsone 789]

 

 

 

The new .17 WSM is a .27 calibre case necked down to take a .17 calibre bullet. NOT QUITE It was originally used in nail guns and the ammo is reported to have very little in common with the .17 hmr eg. its reported to have little recoil, be quiet and be extremely wind resistant.

 

Seems you have cut and pasted a lot of web information, here is some you missed! The .17 WSM is NOT simply a necked down .27 nail gun case!

"Believe it or not, Winchester’s new .17 Win Super Mag evolved from a “parent case” originally developed for .27-caliber powder-actuated concrete nail guns. Winchester has produced millions of nail gun blanks in .22, .25, and .27 calibers. This new .17 Win Super Mag is derived from Winchester’s .27-cal nail gun blank, necked down to .17-caliber and strengthened with a thicker head and stronger case-walls. With case-walls that are 50% thicker than those on 17 HMR cartridges, the .17 Win Super Mag can operate at 33,000 psi. By contrast, the 17 HMR maxes out at 26,000 psi."

 

 

 

It seems I stand corrected.

 

I knew about the thicker walls as I believe pressures are around 33,000 psi on the .17 WSM. I believe thats around 8,000 psi more than HMR, hence the centrefire style breach features.

 

I should probably correct myself as well when I said it would probably obsolete ALL calibres below .223 if it matches it's stated performance as in actual fact .22LR will always survive because of the fact that its near silent with subs and so the gun of choice for close range near housing at night and it doesn't turn rabbits inside out, although I would suggest that anyone shooting rabbits for meat should be head shooting. The other calibres below .223, all seem pointless though if this lives up to its billing as .22 hornet in a .17 rimfire package.

 

 

 

I'm not having a go here, the 17WSM does seem to have a bit going for it on the face of things, but being the sceptical old bugger I am I will be more interested when we actually see them and get some real answers on performance and pricing rather than Marketing led promotion which forms the majority of information currently available.

 

 

 

Hey don't worry, I never thought that for a minute.

 

I too am looking forward to seeing guns actually out there and being used by users. ATM all we have to go on are 1/2 a dozen videos on Youtube, mostly consisting of a press day on a range with Winchester and Marlin. That said, initial reports as ballistics, accuracy and wind drift look very very promising.

 

I just wonder how Firearms Departments are going to treat this though. Are they going to try to stop people normally granted rimfire from being granted this calibre because of its power?

[Deker 3,450]

 

 

 

 

The new .17 WSM is a .27 calibre case necked down to take a .17 calibre bullet. NOT QUITE It was originally used in nail guns and the ammo is reported to have very little in common with the .17 hmr eg. its reported to have little recoil, be quiet and be extremely wind resistant.

 

Seems you have cut and pasted a lot of web information, here is some you missed! The .17 WSM is NOT simply a necked down .27 nail gun case!

"Believe it or not, Winchester’s new .17 Win Super Mag evolved from a “parent case” originally developed for .27-caliber powder-actuated concrete nail guns. Winchester has produced millions of nail gun blanks in .22, .25, and .27 calibers. This new .17 Win Super Mag is derived from Winchester’s .27-cal nail gun blank, necked down to .17-caliber and strengthened with a thicker head and stronger case-walls. With case-walls that are 50% thicker than those on 17 HMR cartridges, the .17 Win Super Mag can operate at 33,000 psi. By contrast, the 17 HMR maxes out at 26,000 psi."

 

 

 

It seems I stand corrected.

 

I knew about the thicker walls as I believe pressures are around 33,000 psi on the .17 WSM. I believe thats around 8,000 psi more than HMR, hence the centrefire style breach features.

 

I should probably correct myself as well when I said it would probably obsolete ALL calibres below .223 if it matches it's stated performance as in actual fact .22LR will always survive because of the fact that its near silent with subs and so the gun of choice for close range near housing at night and it doesn't turn rabbits inside out, although I would suggest that anyone shooting rabbits for meat should be head shooting. The other calibres below .223, all seem pointless though if this lives up to its billing as .22 hornet in a .17 rimfire package.

 

 

 

I'm not having a go here, the 17WSM does seem to have a bit going for it on the face of things, but being the sceptical old bugger I am I will be more interested when we actually see them and get some real answers on performance and pricing rather than Marketing led promotion which forms the majority of information currently available.

 

 

 

Hey don't worry, I never thought that for a minute.

 

I too am looking forward to seeing guns actually out there and being used by users. ATM all we have to go on are 1/2 a dozen videos on Youtube, mostly consisting of a press day on a range with Winchester and Marlin. That said, initial reports as ballistics, accuracy and wind drift look very very promising.

 

I just wonder how Firearms Departments are going to treat this though. Are they going to try to stop people normally granted rimfire from being granted this calibre because of its power?

 

 

Grant of any Firearm should be based on need and safety, I don't see an issue about it being a rimfire and power if you have a need. If it is getting into the area of the Hornet perhaps it will actually be easier to get than one of those.

 

A wider question that might be asked is, just what quarry do we need if for? What are we struggling to control with all the calibres currently available?

[Alsone 789]

Well to me it looks like an ideal all round calibre, hence the reason why I don't see the need for anything other than .22LR if this lives up to its billing.

 

Its ideal for small vermin control such as rabbits and grounded magpies etc as its deadly accurate and has power out to 400yds plus and very good bullet drop at 250yds when zero'ed to 150yds. I suspect 400yds is easily obtainable if zeroed further out.

 

By the same token its an ideal fox round. Supersonic and with .22 Hornet energies even at 400yds.

 

The only people I can't see wanting to use it would be people who want to shoot rabbits for food and who rely on body shots.

 

Personally, I've seen far too many videos on Youtube of rabbits being bodyshot and then twitching for far longer than would be expected from nerves alone from eg .17 hmr and .22 lr when bodyshot to even contemplate it. That's not to say these don't kill cleanly 90% of the time, but as someone who's into humane killing, personally I see no real reason for body shooting rabbts with this type of accuracy.

 

A headshot not only guarantees a kill with a hydrostatic shock round but it also preserves the all important meat for thos wanting the bunny for the table.

 

So for me, if it lives up to its promises and early reports, it looks like the ideal small round. Accurate enough for small vermin but still with enough power for varmints.

[Deker 3,450]

Well to me it looks like an ideal all round calibre, hence the reason why I don't see the need for anything other than .22LR if this lives up to its billing.

 

Its ideal for small vermin control such as rabbits and grounded magpies etc as its deadly accurate and has power out to 400yds plus and very good bullet drop at 250yds when zero'ed to 150yds. I suspect 400yds is easily obtainable if zeroed further out.

 

By the same token its an ideal fox round. Supersonic and with .22 Hornet energies even at 400yds.

 

The only people I can't see wanting to use it would be people who want to shoot rabbits for food and who rely on body shots.

 

Personally, I've seen far too many videos on Youtube of rabbits being bodyshot and then twitching for far longer than would be expected from nerves alone from eg .17 hmr and .22 lr when bodyshot to even contemplate it. That's not to say these don't kill cleanly 90% of the time, but as someone who's into humane killing, personally I see no real reason for body shooting rabbts with this type of accuracy.

 

A headshot not only guarantees a kill with a hydrostatic shock round but it also preserves the all important meat for thos wanting the bunny for the table.

 

So for me, if it lives up to its promises and early reports, it looks like the ideal small round. Accurate enough for small vermin but still with enough power for varmints.

 

....I think you may be getting carried away with the versatility and power of this little thing ...400 yards!

[coldweld 65]

Carried away ! Decker you are being too nice.

 

Fantasy more like at 400m it will be far from flat and will be unlikely to cleanly kill any fox over six months old.

[Alsone 789]

....I think you may be getting carried away with the versatility and power of this little thing ...400 yards!

 

 

Apologies, I misread that chart, the far column is 250 not 400yds.

 

Still 150 ft lbs @ 250 yds isn't bad. Its around the same as .22LR at the muzzle (depending on the ammo choice of course)!

[jam1e 12]

At the risk of sounding silly here, does anyone know when the .17 Winchester Super Mag will be available in the uk rfd's?

Thanks.

[blackfox 9]

Jamie, Yes it Should but as usual the UK is the last to know with all cool gun stuff that comes from the States

 

Id like to give one of these a go