Being Able To Shout Your Bitch/dog Out

[foxdropper 17,092]

 

how do you train a terrier to come off ----

good question stig. i reckon you cant train a good earthdog to come off. ive seen a few in all the years i used to work terriers. one or two of them just didnt take to the job and either jibbed or semi jibbed (culls) one was a freek. cowan/brightmore bred terrier that killed below but would call out with ease unless engaging his fox. (we bred a bitch from this dog that would stay but not engage and was mute. she would just sit with the fox till dug. ) the best ive seen have been scatter bred russells. the bright sort that have the submissive trainability of a collie these again i feel are naturally inclined to work as a team member.. and have the ability to work out what your doing. the worst thing to do if you feel you have a dog with this potential is to put a spade in the ground and dig. you need to be patient and wait it out from the very first encounter. picking earths for easy bolts.. once its seen a bit of success you can call your head off then let off a shot. this the dog relates to a bolt and comes to see. ( hopefully.. ) you get the picture anyways. one of the other ways ive seen is wait till you see an idiot buy in a good terrier. he will in time waste the dog. and it will start to show. not a shout out but the next best thing a half hour wonder. .

 

back to the bright russells. once you have a bit of control its not many times you have to wait at a tree or bush with your terrier in your coat to see a fox hit a net or shot before the terrier knows its job.

 

i used to try and get some control over the more committed terriers but it wasnt long before i realised they took damage due to being distracted. . this is just what ive seen in my limited days of terriers other will no doubt have different experiences due mostly to differing ideals and a different aproach to the same job. its all changed now and to be honest i'm glad i'm past it . it seems its not about getting the the job done for the farmer . its testing terriers terriers have it hard enough with the job they do without making it harder. and a pesters dog will be well tested by the time it is classed as a vetran

 

f**k sake now we are teaching people to work second rate shite .Please dont go down this road ,its stay or cull .Accept no other.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Calling a dog out .what the f**k is that about .FOR YEARS MOST OF US HAVE BEEN BREEDING ,INSTILLING INTO BOTH DOG AND MAN THAT ONCE IN ITS A DIG OR YOU HAVE NO REASON TO BE IN THE GAME .Road to ruin to breed from out else.MIGHT AS WELL USE f*****g DRAIN RODS.TOO MANY MESSERS IN THE GAME IS WHAT IS f***ing UP THE GENE POOL NOT STAYERS

[Cleanspade 3,322]

cleanspade not havin a go but a pesters dog will hopefully will be tested by the time its a veteran but may be too old to breed from at that point as you said in the day it was all about keeping the farmer happy but that was by the use of terriers that would get the job done whatever was required and that type was then the breeding stock the call out type/fox bolter was and still is handy but dare I say inferior as a true digging dog ,only my opinion and I aint no expert perhaps a diff dog was prized in my terrier days atb.

i agree the bolter / shoutout is inferior as a digging dog. but as a dog to bolt foxes they cant be bettered. in my eyes the are a different animal with a different work style.

[foxdropper 17,092]

THEY ARE SECOND RATE CULL ANIMALS ,PERPETUATED BY MESSERS

[Cleanspade 3,322]

 

 

good honest workers should always stay until dug to.. your kidding yourselves on if you can shout a half hearted worker out when he up to his fox. dont put them in bad places or learn to dig.. once you have called him out do yourself a favour and shoot the hoor and get proper stuff. get the basics right or the digging game and game dogs going downhill.

 

posts like this would be sound if they said before them. IN MY OPINION. as that is all that is an opinion. ive seen a few dogs that can be called out. i owned one for many seasons. she was a little yapper that could be shouted out. and was very handy indeed. i worked with a lakie that was hard enough to kill the majority of its foxes and did this with ease, he could be dug to and was dug on many occasions . he took a lot of damage over the years due to his hard nature. but he could be held off the lead at an occupied earth untill sent down by comand . he could also be called off on comand. he was an exeptional working terrier. i also had the pleasure of being out many times in my youth with a pet bred russell that could be shouted out . despite him being one of the hardest terriers ive seen worked. he was prematurely retired at a very young age due to work related injuries. terrierwork and working terriers are so varied . one mans opinion can only relate to what THEY. require in a terrier. i admire all terriers that do a job of work.

 

and the biggest threat to the working terrier at this moment in time is over hard terriers and folk that value this FAULT. above other attributes. just my opinion

 

 

The theory behind this post is great .We can all have terriers that work week in week out but in practice its a fact that you will not consistantly produce good bitches from a sire that is not hard .For the sake of the future of our terriers please think about what you post .

 

 

ive not bred a lot of terriers foxdropper. but i will breed what suits me. my opinion is miles apart from yours. so i will agree to disagree. and for the sake of the future its good to see all the differing opinions. ive seen the results of breeding for hard terriers. and rarely does it result in.steady workers whatever your preferance

[Huntermanic 22]

a proper terrier will only be dug out.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

 

 

how do you train a terrier to come off ----

good question stig. i reckon you cant train a good earthdog to come off. ive seen a few in all the years i used to work terriers. one or two of them just didnt take to the job and either jibbed or semi jibbed (culls) one was a freek. cowan/brightmore bred terrier that killed below but would call out with ease unless engaging his fox. (we bred a bitch from this dog that would stay but not engage and was mute. she would just sit with the fox till dug. ) the best ive seen have been scatter bred russells. the bright sort that have the submissive trainability of a collie these again i feel are naturally inclined to work as a team member.. and have the ability to work out what your doing. the worst thing to do if you feel you have a dog with this potential is to put a spade in the ground and dig. you need to be patient and wait it out from the very first encounter. picking earths for easy bolts.. once its seen a bit of success you can call your head off then let off a shot. this the dog relates to a bolt and comes to see. ( hopefully.. ) you get the picture anyways. one of the other ways ive seen is wait till you see an idiot buy in a good terrier. he will in time waste the dog. and it will start to show. not a shout out but the next best thing a half hour wonder. .

 

back to the bright russells. once you have a bit of control its not many times you have to wait at a tree or bush with your terrier in your coat to see a fox hit a net or shot before the terrier knows its job.

 

i used to try and get some control over the more committed terriers but it wasnt long before i realised they took damage due to being distracted. . this is just what ive seen in my limited days of terriers other will no doubt have different experiences due mostly to differing ideals and a different aproach to the same job. its all changed now and to be honest i'm glad i'm past it . it seems its not about getting the the job done for the farmer . its testing terriers terriers have it hard enough with the job they do without making it harder. and a pesters dog will be well tested by the time it is classed as a vetran

 

f**k sake now we are teaching people to work second rate shite .Please dont go down this road ,its stay or cull .Accept no other.

 

i'm not teaching anything i'm answering a question as honest as i can with my limited vocabulary. . if you want to breed terriers in a specific way for a specific job fine.

other folk may have a different aproach. but as ive said your terriers would be of no use to me so why would i breed for the same.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

THEY ARE SECOND RATE CULL ANIMALS ,PERPETUATED BY MESSERS

and have you thought that what you breed for are culls in other kennels needing different qualiities. it would take me a week with stay till diug. to get round what i could do in a day with a good bolter. and 50 times the work. thats if a hard stayer could stay fit long enough. FFS.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Consistantly breeding from bay only types will result in a steady drop in performance experienced by more than one well known breeder .The standard of the terrier in your yard can ONLY be maintained by consistantly using a dog that will kill his fox easily .I have seen the rest and lets be perfectly honest here they are found wanting when the pressures turned up .Too many terriers bred from that are below par IMO

[foxdropper 17,092]

A hob ferret will do what you want mate .Im sure weve done this before, you and i, and i stand by what i write .For those coming into the sport i would like to think none of them thought it ok to feed a dog that wont stay until dug to.

[foxdropper 17,092]

 

THEY ARE SECOND RATE CULL ANIMALS ,PERPETUATED BY MESSERS

and have you thought that what you breed for are culls in other kennels needing different qualiities. it would take me a week with stay till diug. to get round what i could do in a day with a good bolter. and 50 times the work. thats if a hard stayer could stay fit long enough. FFS.

 

You write about getting round the land so you are providing a service for someone .What if the quarry wont bolt ,does the dog come away/get called off .What service is that providing apart from making you feel good .Enough bolts are had when doing the job properly let alone encouraging it .

[terryd 8,030]

I have not dug for years but when I did my russell would stand back and bay he would never come away not that I ever wanted him too. So you either got a bolt or a dig. My cousins jr was the same too and neither of them took any severe punishment which was good. Some of the lads from the valleys had there rock hard lakelands and what nots but I never saw the benefit of a dog that would wade in and taking a beating no matter what and there was all ways the chance of bumping into some thing else which wouldn't end well.

A terrier that you could call off just sounds like lacking in drive though I dare say as all ways there are some little gems out there.

[Cleanspade 3,322]

Calling a dog out .what the f**k is that about .FOR YEARS MOST OF US HAVE BEEN BREEDING ,INSTILLING INTO BOTH DOG AND MAN THAT ONCE IN ITS A DIG OR YOU HAVE NO REASON TO BE IN THE GAME .Road to ruin to breed from out else.MIGHT AS WELL USE f*****g DRAIN RODS.TOO MANY MESSERS IN THE GAME IS WHAT IS f*****g UP THE GENE POOL NOT STAYERS

why would what i breed for affect your stock as your being blunt. why dont you concern yourself with what you value and i will do likewise. but consider this times are changing

 

A hob ferret will do what you want mate .Im sure weve done this before, you and i, and a stand by what i write .For those coming into the sport i would like to think none of them thought it ok to feed a dog that wont stay until dug to.

i'm sure we have and as our idea's are so far apart there is no point in going over it add nausium. i'll leave with this thought. there are many types of running dogs. many types of gundogs

 

 

 

THEY ARE SECOND RATE CULL ANIMALS ,PERPETUATED BY MESSERS

and have you thought that what you breed for are culls in other kennels needing different qualiities. it would take me a week with stay till diug. to get round what i could do in a day with a good bolter. and 50 times the work. thats if a hard stayer could stay fit long enough. FFS.

 

You write about getting round the land so you are providing a service for someone .What if the quarry wont bolt ,does the dog come away/get called off .What service is that providing apart from making you feel good .Enough bolts are had when doing the job properly let alone encouraging it .

 

now that smacks of limited experience. maybe your set in your ways and have a set way of doing things .but if you cant see why a call out terrier will get the results then i am banging my head off of a brick wall. ive friends with digging terriers that have come with the same comments. but when out have still been digging the first whilst ive had three or four. and yes i call it out and wait for the fox to bolt after the dog is removed. if need be. also i could work a good little call out sort in a lot of places i wouldnt dream of dropping a hard dog or a stayer for that. you are looking for certain qualities. i am looking for different qualities. it dont make me wrong. quality over quantity for you. quantity ofer quality for me. anyway thats me . you have a good holiday. cs

[wirral countryman 2,110]

 

THEY ARE SECOND RATE CULL ANIMALS ,PERPETUATED BY MESSERS

and have you thought that what you breed for are culls in other kennels needing different qualiities. it would take me a week with stay till diug. to get round what i could do in a day with a good bolter. and 50 times the work. thats if a hard stayer could stay fit long enough. FFS.

 

I've given away the types that consistently kill to ground and are in sick bay weeks on end, as a full time pest controller a bayer/bolter is my kind of dog, but if mine are bitten or engaged by their quarry it is a waste of time trying to call them out and a dig anyway, there are many ways to work terriers and the old fashioned purist methods are well outdated in this country, the lad who put this thread up should of put a poll on to see what ways of working are the most popular, WM

[Hot Meat 3,109]

what do folk mean i can call out but if dog engages game or takes a bite then they cant? does it mean you can only shout out emptys?