fenn traps only half catching

[Rolfe 2]

I wont be wasting anymore time arguing with someone who has clearly no idea what he is talking about. For the umpteeth time It is a legal requirement to check traps on the spring approval order once during a 24 hour period WHETHER THEY HAVE CAUGHT OR NOT.....! you keep spouting about checking......well check with DEFRA...Have a look on the BASC website.....check the CPS website.......they all say it is a legal requirement. But i am obviously banging my head against a brick wall......there will be no more input from me on this subject.......and you profess to offer expert advice.......I don't think so..! I just remember an old countrymans deffinition of an EXPERT " An Ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure"

[OldTrapCollector 376]

[kenny14 656]

I wont be wasting anymore time arguing with someone who has clearly no idea what he is talking about. For the umpteeth time It is a legal requirement to check traps on the spring approval order once during a 24 hour period WHETHER THEY HAVE CAUGHT OR NOT.....! you keep spouting about checking......well check with DEFRA...Have a look on the BASC website.....check the CPS website.......they all say it is a legal requirement. But i am obviously banging my head against a brick wall......there will be no more input from me on this subject.......and you profess to offer expert advice.......I don't think so..! I just remember an old countrymans deffinition of an EXPERT " An Ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure"

 

I don't 'profess' to offer expert advice, but I am paid to give it and to ensure that it's followed (I can't help but smile at your mention of the above agencies!).

 

One of the first things I learned when starting out in the legal side of these things was that law in writing and in actual practice can differ somewhat, hence my attempts to put things as clearly as possible, and explain how they would/should fit into practical situations.

 

It's up to you and anyone else, to interpret things and judge me how you wish, but I can leave this topic exactly as I started, which is safe in the knowledge that the people in our country who matter, and have the powers to take any necessary action, share and endorse the interpretations I've given.

[Axholme Ferreter 0]

Inspection of traps

Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a £200 fine (level 1).

See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.

[moley 115]

what exactly are your credentials kenny ? you say you offer advice , do you run courses on trapping or something like that?

[Rolfe 2]

Inspection of traps

Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a £200 fine (level 1).

See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.

 

Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

[Matt 160]

Well, it had to happen...... I just couldn't resist logging in to reply to this thread

 

Firstly, as OTC has stated, the Fenn trap was designed to be used in a tunnel. This is not just my opinion, nor is it just law, but it is also how the man who invented the trap intended for it to be used.

 

What is the basis for my opinion? A conversation I had with the inventor (Alan Fenn) a good few years ago. Now the armchair experts can mumble all they like, but for my money, that's as good as it gets.

 

As for not using a tunnel in law, I think there was a prosecution some years ago, where a pest controller set a Fenn up in a loft and claimed that the roof of the house consituted a tunnel. He didn't get away with it.

 

I could probably find the details here somewhere, but I really can't be arsed.

 

OK, now for trap checking. If you set a Fenn with the intention of catching any vermin other than Rabbits and Hares, then you are not legally required to check that trap every 24 hours. BUT........ if by doing so, you cause 'unnecessary suffering' to an animal then you've committed other offences. Who decides what is 'unnecessary' I hear you ask? The judge.

 

So if you want to stay out of trouble, then use a tunnel of an appropriate size and check at regular intervals. If however, you don't give a shit and care nothing for your quarry or the future of kill trapping in the UK then just ignore the advice of experienced trappers on here and do what you like.

 

Me? I'm loggin off again for now. Being logged on is just too much of a temptation, and this place doesn't seem any better without my offerings.

[IanB 0]

Nowadays,..(and, perhaps).....in the near future,...things are set to change........

 

I am quite aware of what is coming CW - I think that there will be a lot of disappointed 'trappers' when that day comes ...

 

OTC

 

And if changes are a foot, I hope its not anyone involved in hunting pushing them to the necessary people, discrediting Fenn traps in order to push and sell other traps. If that is the case, its a selfish and traitorous path..

 

On another note, tunnels... illegal without, well yes, and yes they do catch better in tunnels and holes, but I've seen others catch hundreds of rats with fenns in grain stores without tunnels, I'm not condoning it, but, well they catch..

[paulus 26]

Well, it had to happen...... I just couldn't resist logging in to reply to this thread

 

Firstly, as OTC has stated, the Fenn trap was designed to be used in a tunnel. This is not just my opinion, nor is it just law, but it is also how the man who invented the trap intended for it to be used.

 

What is the basis for my opinion? A conversation I had with the inventor (Alan Fenn) a good few years ago. Now the armchair experts can mumble all they like, but for my money, that's as good as it gets.

 

As for not using a tunnel in law, I think there was a prosecution some years ago, where a pest controller set a Fenn up in a loft and claimed that the roof of the house consituted a tunnel. He didn't get away with it.

 

I could probably find the details here somewhere, but I really can't be arsed.

 

OK, now for trap checking. If you set a Fenn with the intention of catching any vermin other than Rabbits and Hares, then you are not legally required to check that trap every 24 hours. BUT........ if by doing so, you cause 'unnecessary suffering' to an animal then you've committed other offences. Who decides what is 'unnecessary' I hear you ask? The judge.

 

So if you want to stay out of trouble, then use a tunnel of an appropriate size and check at regular intervals. If however, you don't give a shit and care nothing for your quarry or the future of kill trapping in the UK then just ignore the advice of experienced trappers on here and do what you like.

 

Me? I'm loggin off again for now. Being logged on is just too much of a temptation, and this place doesn't seem any better without my offerings.

i honestly believe the trap was never designed to jump, but was rather a comercial implication, the trap could be made not to jump in one of two ways. 1) reduce the power. this would not have been an option as the trap had to be of the break back (kill type) rather than the legg hold trap it was designed to replace. 2) increase the weight. again this would have made the cost of the trap comercially unviable. so the only other option would have been to add a tunnel to control it. im in total agrement ian as ive seen and caught hundreds of rats in fenns without tunnels in the correct places and ive also caught hundreds in tunnels, untill this thread i had never really bothered with the height of the tunnel as i usually make them out of what i can scavange from the area im trapping be it 2 bricks high or 1 log.

[kenny14 656]

what exactly are your credentials kenny ? you say you offer advice , do you run courses on trapping or something like that?

 

Yes, and other related subjects.

[kenny14 656]

Inspection of traps

Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a £200 fine (level 1).

See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.

 

Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

 

Even though I said I was leaving this topic (as you also did!) I feel I should defend myself here.

I'm not as you put it 'a pen pushing barrack room lawyer', far from it in fact. I do however often work alongside lawyers and other legal professionals when called upon to give evidence and opinion on matters regarding trapping, pest control and other related subjects. My opinion and judgement has actually helped to save several fellow trappers and pest controllers from criminal charges. I've been deemed competent to do this work by people in the very highest positions in their respective fields, from both legal and pest control backgrounds. I'm sure these people would also strongly disagree with you on your claim that I wouldn't know the difference between a Fenn trap and a Mouse trap. I'm in this position because I've been able to demonstrate my ability and competence over very many years.

 

As has been hinted at by others on here, things will be changing in the very near future, and all who partake in trapping (which may or may not include yourself) just may at some time have to convince either myself or colleagues of their individual competence and knowledge before being legally allowed to carry on.

 

Now I really am leaving this topic because (and it's clear you like an old saying or two) 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink'.....

 

And I'm off to York to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow. Because that's another one of the many existing laws you could trawl up and quote, yet mean nothing in practice!.....Wake up and enter the 21st century!!

 

You would do well to remember that fieldsports and pest control is under enough pressure as it is, without people like you attempting to discredit others who are clearly acting within the laws, have the highest regard for the welfare of the animals they control, are constantly looking to improve and move forward, and are actively working to ensure that we and the sportsmen of tomorrow can continue in our chosen fields.

 

[IanB 0]

And if changes are a foot, I hope its not anyone involved in hunting pushing them to the necessary people, discrediting Fenn traps in order to push and sell other traps. If that is the case, its a selfish and traitorous path..

 

On another note, tunnels... illegal without, well yes, and yes they do catch better in tunnels and holes, but I've seen others catch hundreds of rats with fenns in grain stores without tunnels, I'm not condoning it, but, well they catch..

 

Calm down, calm down, our Kid...

 

Nothing is cast in stone,...

 

Simply a gut feeling, from a few remarks made by one or two lads, who are in regular conversation with official folk... Facts are,..kill trapping in the UK is definitely set to change,....

 

I just have a gut feeling myself Phil that, certain people involved in that scene will try to push it through. If the Fenn was removed from the approved list, its another nail in the coffin and one less tool to use. Personally I think people have got nothing better to do and too much time on their hands..lets see what we can ban or break now.

 

Sad, because I bet money on it, the ones who shout about them, are the ones that don't use them barely at all OR having some personal gain involved.

[OldTrapCollector 376]

,...certain rust buckets might be removed from the list, and consigned to the table tops, of the avid collector....

 

Amen to that!

 

OTC

[Rolfe 2]

Inspection of traps

Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a £200 fine (level 1).

See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.

 

Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

 

Even though I said I was leaving this topic (as you also did!) I feel I should defend myself here.

I'm not as you put it 'a pen pushing barrack room lawyer', far from it in fact. I do however often work alongside lawyers and other legal professionals when called upon to give evidence and opinion on matters regarding trapping, pest control and other related subjects. My opinion and judgement has actually helped to save several fellow trappers and pest controllers from criminal charges. I've been deemed competent to do this work by people in the very highest positions in their respective fields, from both legal and pest control backgrounds. I'm sure these people would also strongly disagree with you on your claim that I wouldn't know the difference between a Fenn trap and a Mouse trap. I'm in this position because I've been able to demonstrate my ability and competence over very many years.

 

As has been hinted at by others on here, things will be changing in the very near future, and all who partake in trapping (which may or may not include yourself) just may at some time have to convince either myself or colleagues of their individual competence and knowledge before being legally allowed to carry on.

 

Now I really am leaving this topic because (and it's clear you like an old saying or two) 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink'.....

 

And I'm off to York to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow. Because that's another one of the many existing laws you could trawl up and quote, yet mean nothing in practice!.....Wake up and enter the 21st century!!

 

You would do well to remember that fieldsports and pest control is under enough pressure as it is, without people like you attempting to discredit others who are clearly acting within the laws, have the highest regard for the welfare of the animals they control, are constantly looking to improve and move forward, and are actively working to ensure that we and the sportsmen of tomorrow can continue in our chosen fields.

 

 

I have been involved in trapping and pest control for over 40 years, run my own pest control company, and train delegates in all aspects of Rural pest control including legislation. Unlike you, i am open with my credentials and don't go hiding behind assumptions. I am well aware of the law regarding traps and trapping and abide by them at all times I have probably forgotten more about setting traps than you will ever know, and unfortunately the way things are going i can well see the day when i will have to demonstrate my ability to some numpty like yourself to be able to continue doing something you have very little knowledge of.

[micky 3,325]

Inspection of traps

Section 10 of the Protection of Animals Act 1911 places a duty upon any person setting a spring trap to catch a rabbit or a hare to inspect the trap at least once a day between sunrise and sunset. Failure to do so is a summary offence punishable by a £200 fine (level 1).

See the Protection of Animals Act 1911.

 

Your wasting your breath Axe me old mate........I have already pointed this out to the pen pushing barrack room lawyer.........but he knows best....! I'll have a bet, a pound to a pinch of shit, he wouldn't know a the difference between a Fenn trap and a mouse trap, and has never set either. He can show me no legislation that says a cage trap has to be inspected daily or even when shown the law regarding the inspection of spring traps.......he still denies it. Be very wary of people that cannot back up there claims with hard facts.......And he gets paid for his advice.....ffs...lol..!

 

Even though I said I was leaving this topic (as you also did!) I feel I should defend myself here.

I'm not as you put it 'a pen pushing barrack room lawyer', far from it in fact. I do however often work alongside lawyers and other legal professionals when called upon to give evidence and opinion on matters regarding trapping, pest control and other related subjects. My opinion and judgement has actually helped to save several fellow trappers and pest controllers from criminal charges. I've been deemed competent to do this work by people in the very highest positions in their respective fields, from both legal and pest control backgrounds. I'm sure these people would also strongly disagree with you on your claim that I wouldn't know the difference between a Fenn trap and a Mouse trap. I'm in this position because I've been able to demonstrate my ability and competence over very many years.

 

As has been hinted at by others on here, things will be changing in the very near future, and all who partake in trapping (which may or may not include yourself) just may at some time have to convince either myself or colleagues of their individual competence and knowledge before being legally allowed to carry on.

 

Now I really am leaving this topic because (and it's clear you like an old saying or two) 'You can lead a Horse to water but you can't make him drink'.....

 

And I'm off to York to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow. Because that's another one of the many existing laws you could trawl up and quote, yet mean nothing in practice!.....Wake up and enter the 21st century!!

 

You would do well to remember that fieldsports and pest control is under enough pressure as it is, without people like you attempting to discredit others who are clearly acting within the laws, have the highest regard for the welfare of the animals they control, are constantly looking to improve and move forward, and are actively working to ensure that we and the sportsmen of tomorrow can continue in our chosen fields.

 

 

Ken , i think you are too boastful and immature to work alongside people in the legal profession unless, of course, it's to nip shop, open doors and make the tea