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Brother to sister mating is it to close,


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4 minutes ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

That's interesting mate and I don't dispute that such a breeding program would be or is, the way to go forward with livestock in your example above. But personally I don't think such a process for dog breeding is the right approach. Surely the difference's are that livestock are herd animals, the less brain the better, the more domesticated the better, etc. Dogs are not the same in anyway, nor the jobs that we ask them to do.

When we know that a small gene pool gives less to work with and nothing new to add, why would you conclude that overall health and genes will be strong or continue to improve?

Inbreeding over time with little input from outside the gene pool of dogs will result in weaknesses. I've already said I agree that a certain amount of inbreeding is necessary to establish a line and then things can go forward, but brother to sister is too close in my opinion. 

Out of interest, were the parents of your blue dog you posted up blue in colour and did you start with a first cross as the dog to begin your line? Genuinely interested, but it stands to reason that too close will result in recessive traits which are recessive genes so of what benefit is that so early on in the line? Good luck with your breeding though, you obviously put thought into your approach to it mate. Cheers

Thanks but how does a dogs genes differ from any other animals apart from them being of a dog or any other animal. How does breeding in produce recessive traits? 

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A brother sister mating from which a bitch was again put back to the sire produced this dog. Like the rest of the litter he is bursting with health and vitality and hes slightly bigger than both of hi

What if it doesn't need improving? What if you have everything you want and need in your animals.  I heard a well respected terrierman say if you take a pint of milk and add a spoonful of shite w

my old bitch bred like that she thrived on lots of stick n the stronger the hares the better for her. 

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Just now, jeemes said:

Thanks but how does a dogs genes differ from any other animals apart from them being of a dog or any other animal. How does breeding in produce recessive traits? 

i know a few stockmen sheep bulls etc none inbreed jeemes ? for the reason you have still births problems ?

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1 minute ago, mC HULL said:

i know a few stockmen sheep bulls etc none inbreed jeemes ? for the reason you have still births problems ?

Do you think there stock have always been outcrossed?

 

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5 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

i know a few stockmen sheep bulls etc none inbreed jeemes ? for the reason you have still births problems ?

How do you think the still births occur because of inbreeding?

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4 minutes ago, jeemes said:

Do you think there stock have always been outcrossed?

 

no but with time comes common sense and more understanding inbreeding your reducing the variability of the gene pool that leads to extinction you will get to the point you won’t be able to reproduce 

take sheep you in breed you will just end up  with still borns and sheep dying giving birth 

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5 minutes ago, jeemes said:

How do you think the still births occur because of inbreeding?

be bad genes recessive genes 

hundred of study’s show inbreeding decreases size lowers fertility causes still borns reduces life expectancy cause etc

its all out there mate have a look and a read 

 

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4 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

no but with time comes common sense and more understanding inbreeding your reducing the variability of the gene pool that leads to extinction you will get to the point you won’t be able to reproduce 

take sheep you in breed you will just end up  with still borns and sheep dying giving birth 

When my dogs are extinct I'll let you know👍

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Just now, jeemes said:

When my dogs are extinct I'll let you know👍

once you need ai your there or start having still born pups which multiple lads on here have had and needed straws 

you got any pics of dogs at 14 15 ?

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2 hours ago, jeemes said:

When you say "its just what happens" Wheres your evidence? I mean apart from studies on google I mean. I am certainly not saying you can breed indefinitely in.  The idea is to fix traits or putting it another way to make the animal double dominant for the desired traits mental or physical. So on that basis if you had a dog that was DD for all the traits you wanted in your dog, say courage, drive, speed,stamina,intelligence plus physically sound, great feet, etc etc He would be a prepotent animal that would mask any recessive faults in bitches put to him and likely to produce good offspring. 

Through Line breeding (slow) or inbreeding (quick) you can bring about this purity of strain, whether its dogs ferrets, pigeons etc and so improving stock as recessives through selection are removed. 

Have a look at the pedigree of" Purity". An agricultural animal that has been pure for hundreds of years. Her sire Mercury was a great producer. Saturn and Rhea were obviously quality animals to start with. I wont say what the animals were but they were and are judged on what they produce.

Im not saying inbreeding cant go wrong. I know it can, especially if its practiced haphazardly or with sentimentality but Wheres your evidence that it cannot go well.

IMG_7453.jpg

Jerseys? Maybe they were a landrace long before he went near them?

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24 minutes ago, jeemes said:

Thanks but how does a dogs genes differ from any other animals apart from them being of a dog or any other animal. How does breeding in produce recessive traits? 

Wild herd animals, one sire, lots of dams. Carnivorous animals tend to pair up. Must be some reason for it.

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12 minutes ago, tinytiger said:

Jerseys? Maybe they were a landrace long before he went near them?

just looked jerseys have a coefficency of 3.3 percent and don’t go higher than 6 percent 

inbreeding causes less milk production after that 

that’s quite low inbreeding 

khan jihad had 9.51 and he only had 3x3 common relative grandparent each side litter brother sister with some import blood a bit further back 

imagine what brother sister then a pup back to farther would be even the kc wouldn’t have that 😂 

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The highest level of inbreeding by far (> 80%) is for the Norwegian Lundehund. This breed suffers from extremely low fertility and high puppy mortality as well as an often lethal gastrointestinal disorder.

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57 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

just looked jerseys have a coefficency of 3.3 percent and don’t go higher than 6 percent 

inbreeding causes less milk production after that 

that’s quite low inbreeding 

khan jihad had 9.51 and he only had 3x3 common relative grandparent each side litter brother sister with some import blood a bit further back 

imagine what brother sister then a pup back to farther would be even the kc wouldn’t have that 😂 

Its at 65%(roughly) in the pedigree Jeemes put up,(and no new blood added since). How many generations is it being worked out over? (Makes a big difference)

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14 minutes ago, tinytiger said:

Its at 65%(roughly) in the pedigree Jeemes put up,(and no new blood added since). How many generations is it being worked out over? (Makes a big difference)

the dog khan jihad was over 80years o so mate 9.51 

 

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