dogo argentino attacks tv presenter

[Marvin 193]

Read this this morning and knew it would be worth coming back to later, you could bet your pension that a high number of those who are blaming the woman would be the first ones on the phone to claims direct if it had been them who had been bitten, probably demanded the dog was pts if it had bit their girlfriend or child .................. threads like this have got more testosterone running through them than Ben Johnson's packed lunch ............... reckon after reading it you wouldn't pass an Olympic drug test. Some people seriously need to get a grip

[k99yle 53]

Cracks me up the way some folk are defending this like its not really the dogs fault !......Shame these excuses never got made for pit bulls !.......To say " its not the dogs fault because the woman put her face near the dogs face "....is absolutely ridiculous..........................ok so your waiting for your kids to come out the sweet shop and a littlun ( or adult for that matter ) comes up and gets their face close to the dog as happens day in day out......dog takes a chunk of cheek and hey ho " sorry chum its your own fault for getting too near my bad ass dog "............................turn it in for f**k sake !

Why folk need to over complicate things like this with all the leader of the pack nonsense is beyond me..............the only slight excuse id give that dog is possibly the unfamiliar surroundings it was in.....but even then,a well adjusted confident and sensible dog will cope in near any situation without feeling the need to lash out........i dont see any reason to give dogs an excuse because i accept theres good and bad specimens born of any species this " theres no bad dogs just bad owners " thing is possibly the most ridiculous statement a dog fancier could ever make in my opinion.

im not sure what a dog fancier is, maybe thats what someone who keeps dogs in this day and age is called,but it doesn't mean they know anything about dogs, i kept dogs all my life same as my father and his father before him and i can assure that any litter of pups born anywhere to any bitch of any species is born with certain traits either to be the most social or the most aggressive that breed can be,

 

these are traits that can be encouraged or neglected, all of which depend on learned behaviour, strong dogs and high drive dogs can all be kept with ease if you know the systems to work these dogs in drive, and thats where i believe most owners fall down,

im not sure about other fanciers of strong dogs but bringing them down the sweet shop and leaving them parked outside for folk to stick their faces into would not be very responsible ownership in my experience,

a lot of the knowledge out there at the minute is misinformation, what works for the pet dog can be down right dangerous when used with working species, i dont do the dominance theory thinking, too many dogs ruined, too many dogs in shelters, so the way things sit at the minute the current thinking is wrong, and thats where i think things need to be addressed,

all dogs are born social no doubt, from those pups jumping up to greet you when you first look at a litter, complete blank pages every one, each one with different drives no doubt but thats where knowledge of the canine comes in

,how any of those pups end up as a snapping snarling beast is down to its treatment by a human hand,

i have never been surer about anything bud, they are all born social,no matter what breed,

If that was my dog i would have slammed it onto the deck by its throat and strangled the fecker whilst growling at it until it acted submissive. Why did the knob just sit there looking gormless. If my dog even looks at anyone a bit funny or growls when someone knocks on the door she gets a firm reminder that she is at the bottom of the pecking order. That women should be able to do what she likes to that dog, except hurt it.

 

Bloody hell, wouldn't like to be your dog K99yle!

My dog gets looked after very well and i adore her but she is also very powerful. She is the most calm and gentle dog you have ever met. This is because she knows her place. I am firm but fair. I would rather be like this than have her bite my niece of friends toddlers.

[The Duncan 802]

What she was doing, fussing round its mouth and muzzle, is how a subordinate pack member makes up to the leader, or a dog of higher status. She put the dog into a position where it felt it had to tell the idiot off, and that's all it did: told a lower ranking animal to get out of its space; the dog would have been stressed in the heat and lights of a TV studio as well.

spot on

[B.P.R 2,798]

ive not read this topics, just looked at the video. looked like a nervous bit to me

[Lab 10,979]

ive not read this topics, just looked at the video. looked like a nervous bit to me

Whats a nervous bite then? Do we start measuring the scar or how many stitches you get before deciding to PTS. The dog is a bad one end off. The country is full of people who dont know how to react around dogs, especially children. Its the owners responsibility to train the dog to not react or never ever put it in a situation where it might.

[lukey 1,620]

The dog really shouldnt have bit her should it? But lets be honest,...He gave her a nip! Size of the dog made things worse than it was and Im not making excuses here as I do think the dog should be PTS,...Cant really be rehomed can he? If it was a small toy dog that done it Im sure the folk would have laughed it of. And the dog hardly went mental did he? Dont have much experiance with dogs like that but with the way they was sitting and holding the dog could they have done much if he went wild n started attacking? They set that dog up, hours upon hours should have been spent on that dog to see how far things could go with him. If he didnt do it on that show what could have happend next? Start dragging him through schools ect held by the collar?

Edited February 11, 2012 by lukey

[gnasher16 29,649]

im not sure what a dog fancier is, maybe thats what someone who keeps dogs in this day and age is called,but it doesn't mean they know anything about dogs, i kept dogs all my life same as my father and his father before him and i can assure that any litter of pups born anywhere to any bitch of any species is born with certain traits either to be the most social or the most aggressive that breed can be,

 

these are traits that can be encouraged or neglected, all of which depend on learned behaviour, strong dogs and high drive dogs can all be kept with ease if you know the systems to work these dogs in drive, and thats where i believe most owners fall down,

im not sure about other fanciers of strong dogs but bringing them down the sweet shop and leaving them parked outside for folk to stick their faces into would not be very responsible ownership in my experience,

a lot of the knowledge out there at the minute is misinformation, what works for the pet dog can be down right dangerous when used with working species, i dont do the dominance theory thinking, too many dogs ruined, too many dogs in shelters, so the way things sit at the minute the current thinking is wrong, and thats where i think things need to be addressed,

all dogs are born social no doubt, from those pups jumping up to greet you when you first look at a litter, complete blank pages every one, each one with different drives no doubt but thats where knowledge of the canine comes in

,how any of those pups end up as a snapping snarling beast is down to its treatment by a human hand,

i have never been surer about anything bud, they are all born social,no matter what breed,

 

A dog fancier is somebody with an interest in dogs

With all due respect you are speaking with a very naive outlook on nature......you say " all dogs are born social ".....that is absolute nonsense,what so because a puppy will lick your face and roll over to have its belly rubbed that means its born social ??.....you think that means theres not a capacity within that dog to be bad ?.....YOU DISREGARD THE LAWS OF NATURE AT YOUR OWN PERIL !........and the laws of nature dictate some living things will be born good some will be born bad.....as dog breeders we must strive to weed out the bad,but nobody breeds 100 % good dogs only an ignorant fool would say they do.

Bad might be a kinked tail an undershot jaw or some other physical trait....but it can just as easily be a mental/emotional trait......or are we to believe that all dogs are born with love and kindness in their hearts

Nature versus nurture is a debate ive had a hundred times and nobody will ever convince me that every bad dog born can be " brought around "......ive seen and been around enough bad dogs to know that an irresponsible owner will spend a lifetime thinking " i know best " and try to correct a dog born bad ( at high risk to others )......and a good responsible owner will accept what nature sometimes throws up and do the right thing and deal with the dog by not only removing it from harms way but making sure those bad traits that nature threw up do not get passed on ( strive to weed out the bad )

[Casso 1,256]

im not sure what a dog fancier is, maybe thats what someone who keeps dogs in this day and age is called,but it doesn't mean they know anything about dogs, i kept dogs all my life same as my father and his father before him and i can assure that any litter of pups born anywhere to any bitch of any species is born with certain traits either to be the most social or the most aggressive that breed can be,

 

these are traits that can be encouraged or neglected, all of which depend on learned behaviour, strong dogs and high drive dogs can all be kept with ease if you know the systems to work these dogs in drive, and thats where i believe most owners fall down,

im not sure about other fanciers of strong dogs but bringing them down the sweet shop and leaving them parked outside for folk to stick their faces into would not be very responsible ownership in my experience,

a lot of the knowledge out there at the minute is misinformation, what works for the pet dog can be down right dangerous when used with working species, i dont do the dominance theory thinking, too many dogs ruined, too many dogs in shelters, so the way things sit at the minute the current thinking is wrong, and thats where i think things need to be addressed,

all dogs are born social no doubt, from those pups jumping up to greet you when you first look at a litter, complete blank pages every one, each one with different drives no doubt but thats where knowledge of the canine comes in

,how any of those pups end up as a snapping snarling beast is down to its treatment by a human hand,

i have never been surer about anything bud, they are all born social,no matter what breed,

 

A dog fancier is somebody with an interest in dogs

With all due respect you are speaking with a very naive outlook on nature......you say " all dogs are born social ".....that is absolute nonsense,what so because a puppy will lick your face and roll over to have its belly rubbed that means its born social ??.....you think that means theres not a capacity within that dog to be bad ?.....YOU DISREGARD THE LAWS OF NATURE AT YOUR OWN PERIL !........and the laws of nature dictate some living things will be born good some will be born bad.....as dog breeders we must strive to weed out the bad,but nobody breeds 100 % good dogs only an ignorant fool would say they do.

Bad might be a kinked tail an undershot jaw or some other physical trait....but it can just as easily be a mental/emotional trait......or are we to believe that all dogs are born with love and kindness in their hearts

Nature versus nurture is a debate ive had a hundred times and nobody will ever convince me that every bad dog born can be " brought around "......ive seen and been around enough bad dogs to know that an irresponsible owner will spend a lifetime thinking " i know best " and try to correct a dog born bad ( at high risk to others )......and a good responsible owner will accept what nature sometimes throws up and do the right thing and deal with the dog by not only removing it from harms way but making sure those bad traits that nature threw up do not get passed on ( strive to weed out the bad )

i must be a dog fancier then, but i an certainly not naive when it comes to dogs, dogs are all born social they are the most social domesticated animal we have,

Dogs are immediate moment animals, they are not good or bad, these are human terms which have small relevance in understanding animals,

 

The laws of nature are the best tool in bonding with a canine, simply the best, the laws of nature are based on attraction, if we could only look round and really see what the laws of nature are telling us, everything is attracted to everything else, the cat is attracted to the mouse, the dog is attracted to the rabbit, and so it goes on, the dog doesn't hate the rabbit or the cat the mouse, same as the lion doesn't hate the zebra, good or bad is not relevant

im not sure what the comment means about breeders breeding 100% good dogs , i cant understand the logic

Because its the hunt that made the dog a social animal, its what brought his ancestors into contact with man many years ago, the canine evolved to work with man through the hunt to achieve a goal, through the laws of nature which you seem to be afraid off , is what gave us the dog,

 

The good and bad you talk about is what is called the emotional capacity of an animal, prey such as rabbit ,deer etc have very low emotional thresholds as most prey animals do, a glance is all most will give before legging it, but if raised from birth in the presents of humans and it can take on predator traits ,eye contact ,aggression with human and dogs etc,

 

it the same with dogs the higher we take its emotional capacity the higher the situation it can deal with, be it dealing with humans animals etc, if it has no fear of us it will never need to respond in a fearful manner which is prey like in its response,

once you raise the bar of what an animal can deal with through an understanding approach there is no situation you cant work in with a dog,any dog ,give me a strong dog with high drive from a pup and i will give you back a supremely confident animal with no fear of man or beast, is he good or bad??

neither, his capacity to see a positive in every situation will have been increased to such an extent that he never feel to need to act fearful, and none of it will be done through dominance

since dogs are immediate moment and respond as such through feel, is the reason the dog responded as it did with that woman,no thought process involved he just felt threatened, held by the neck unable to get away he was set up for the chop,

its the same feeling a dog has when we crouch and call him, he,s more likely to come because crouching we are less intimidating to the dog less threatening in that moment even if we had the mutt for years he is still going on feel alone,

the tragedy of this thread is that people have no idea of the true nature of the canine and until we address that thousands of dogs will be destroyed every years, do we really think we understand dogs when so many are living on death row in shelters all over the world

[gnasher16 29,649]

You are totally disregarding genetic inheritance......are we now to believe theres no such thing as a dog who is just wired wrong ?.....ive been around some very good dogmen over the years,men who could get inside a dogs head and were naturally great dogmen....personally i dont think i was ever on their level for the natural bond they could create with a dog whether it be their own dog my dog or a strangers dog they just seemed to have that special something.............that still doesnt mean they didnt have to cull the odd manbiter......

What you are basically saying is dogs,or indeed anything born of nature.....is born without fault,and thats just ludicrous !.......whether those faults ever show themself in the dogs lifetime isnt necessarily so....but sometimes they do,hence the saying " born bad ".....

Are we to believe the worlds sickest serial killers were just victims of their environment ?......Jeffrey Dahmer was killing small animals from a young age for the sheer hell of it.....progressing to killing humans and having sex with dead bodies before eating them.......your telling me he was wired ok but just strayed off the straight and narrow.......and some good guy like yourself could of come along and turned him good ??......anything born of nature has the capability to be born bad,to think otherwise is in my opinion very naive.....hence nobody breeds 100 % good dogs,its just not possible.

Edited February 11, 2012 by gnasher16

[The Duncan 802]

There are very few dogs that can't be corrected from such behaviour IMHO, and I feel that the handler and presenter were at fault as their actions and inactions caused that defensive nip to happen.

I certainly wouldn't say that the young dog is a 'bad to the core' dog that needs to be destroyed, it just needs to be handled correctly.

[Casso 1,256]

You are totally disregarding genetic inheritance......are we now to believe theres no such thing as a dog who is just wired wrong ?.....ive been around some very good dogmen over the years,men who could get inside a dogs head and were naturally great dogmen....personally i dont think i was ever on their level for the natural bond they could create with a dog whether it be their own dog my dog or a strangers dog they just seemed to have that special something.............that still doesnt mean they didnt have to cull the odd manbiter......

What you are basically saying is dogs,or indeed anything born of nature.....is born without fault,and thats just ludicrous !.......whether those faults ever show themself in the dogs lifetime isnt necessarily so....but sometimes they do,hence the saying " born bad ".....

Are we to believe the worlds sickest serial killers were just victims of their environment ?......Jeffrey Dahmer was killing small animals from a young age for the sheer hell of it.....progressing to killing humans and having sex with dead bodies before eating them.......your telling me he was wired ok but just strayed off the straight and narrow.......and some good guy like yourself could of come along and turned him good ??......anything born of nature has the capability to be born bad,to think otherwise is in my opinion very naive.....hence nobody breeds 100 % good dogs,its just not possible.

i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link,

 

apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error,

and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid of the nature of dogs maybe believing the next dog they come across will be the mad one thats out there, thats fine too

i have never came across a mad or badly wired or a bad on, that couldn't be explained

the problem is people get fixed onto a thought process that roughly fits the bill because they cant account for the missing bits, and make a link with what goes on in the human world,

if you want to believe that a dog which you cant understand the motives for is plainly mad or wired wrong so be it,

 

most humans who go off the deep end had a deeply troubled upbringing,

i still cant figure out the 100% good dog bit, when man has bred for friendliness not purpose, the first thing you lose is drive, what your breeding for there is submissiveness which is a defense mechanism in dogs

this defense system in canines is fear based, and a fear based dog can be a problem, and is maybe what your alluding too, as a dangerous dog is really a scared dog not bred for purpose, just form

on the other hand a purpose bred animal bred for work with high drive is a cool calm animal confident in its own skin, when folk over here first imported dogs from german working lines,well reared confident dogs they found they had to train them too bark at strangers so calm were the dogs in themselves,

 

i appreciate your input in this debate but the current thinking is just too easy to put all the blame on the mutt, if we cant understand a dogs behavior in whatever circumstances we should look a little deeper , best of luck,

[GrCh 856]

You are totally disregarding genetic inheritance......are we now to believe theres no such thing as a dog who is just wired wrong ?.....ive been around some very good dogmen over the years,men who could get inside a dogs head and were naturally great dogmen....personally i dont think i was ever on their level for the natural bond they could create with a dog whether it be their own dog my dog or a strangers dog they just seemed to have that special something.............that still doesnt mean they didnt have to cull the odd manbiter......

What you are basically saying is dogs,or indeed anything born of nature.....is born without fault,and thats just ludicrous !.......whether those faults ever show themself in the dogs lifetime isnt necessarily so....but sometimes they do,hence the saying " born bad ".....

Are we to believe the worlds sickest serial killers were just victims of their environment ?......Jeffrey Dahmer was killing small animals from a young age for the sheer hell of it.....progressing to killing humans and having sex with dead bodies before eating them.......your telling me he was wired ok but just strayed off the straight and narrow.......and some good guy like yourself could of come along and turned him good ??......anything born of nature has the capability to be born bad,to think otherwise is in my opinion very naive.....hence nobody breeds 100 % good dogs,its just not possible.

i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link,

 

apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error,

and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid of the nature of dogs maybe believing the next dog they come across will be the mad one thats out there, thats fine too

i have never came across a mad or badly wired or a bad on, that couldn't be explained

the problem is people get fixed onto a thought process that roughly fits the bill because they cant account for the missing bits, and make a link with what goes on in the human world,

if you want to believe that a dog which you cant understand the motives for is plainly mad or wired wrong so be it,

 

most humans who go off the deep end had a deeply troubled upbringing,

i still cant figure out the 100% good dog bit, when man has bred for friendliness not purpose, the first thing you lose is drive, what your breeding for there is submissiveness which is a defense mechanism in dogs

this defense system in canines is fear based, and a fear based dog can be a problem, and is maybe what your alluding too, as a dangerous dog is really a scared dog not bred for purpose, just form

on the other hand a purpose bred animal bred for work with high drive is a cool calm animal confident in its own skin, when folk over here first imported dogs from german working lines,well reared confident dogs they found they had to train them too bark at strangers so calm were the dogs in themselves,

 

i appreciate your input in this debate but the current thinking is just too easy to put all the blame on the mutt, if we cant understand a dogs behavior in whatever circumstances we should look a little deeper , best of luck,

 

Most educated post on this thread.

[blan89 159]

unless that dog has been massively mistreated/beaten etc it at best has weak nerves.

 

the attitude of trying to save/turn it (even if it is possible) is bad for dogs imo,we should be manipulating their genetic codes by culling all that don't reach our standards,not pandering to shit ones like this.

[Fabapocalypse 35]

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/living/myfox_pets/120210-anchor-bitten-by-dog

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVBxR8L3aA

[WILF 44,291]

You are totally disregarding genetic inheritance......are we now to believe theres no such thing as a dog who is just wired wrong ?.....ive been around some very good dogmen over the years,men who could get inside a dogs head and were naturally great dogmen....personally i dont think i was ever on their level for the natural bond they could create with a dog whether it be their own dog my dog or a strangers dog they just seemed to have that special something.............that still doesnt mean they didnt have to cull the odd manbiter......

What you are basically saying is dogs,or indeed anything born of nature.....is born without fault,and thats just ludicrous !.......whether those faults ever show themself in the dogs lifetime isnt necessarily so....but sometimes they do,hence the saying " born bad ".....

Are we to believe the worlds sickest serial killers were just victims of their environment ?......Jeffrey Dahmer was killing small animals from a young age for the sheer hell of it.....progressing to killing humans and having sex with dead bodies before eating them.......your telling me he was wired ok but just strayed off the straight and narrow.......and some good guy like yourself could of come along and turned him good ??......anything born of nature has the capability to be born bad,to think otherwise is in my opinion very naive.....hence nobody breeds 100 % good dogs,its just not possible.

i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link,

 

apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error,

and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid of the nature of dogs maybe believing the next dog they come across will be the mad one thats out there, thats fine too

i have never came across a mad or badly wired or a bad on, that couldn't be explained

the problem is people get fixed onto a thought process that roughly fits the bill because they cant account for the missing bits, and make a link with what goes on in the human world,

if you want to believe that a dog which you cant understand the motives for is plainly mad or wired wrong so be it,

 

most humans who go off the deep end had a deeply troubled upbringing,

i still cant figure out the 100% good dog bit, when man has bred for friendliness not purpose, the first thing you lose is drive, what your breeding for there is submissiveness which is a defense mechanism in dogs

this defense system in canines is fear based, and a fear based dog can be a problem, and is maybe what your alluding too, as a dangerous dog is really a scared dog not bred for purpose, just form

on the other hand a purpose bred animal bred for work with high drive is a cool calm animal confident in its own skin, when folk over here first imported dogs from german working lines,well reared confident dogs they found they had to train them too bark at strangers so calm were the dogs in themselves,

 

i appreciate your input in this debate but the current thinking is just too easy to put all the blame on the mutt, if we cant understand a dogs behavior in whatever circumstances we should look a little deeper , best of luck,

 

A well written and well thought out post but one that I can't agree with I am afraid.....it implies that nurture wins over nature and I simply don't believe that at all.

 

IMHO nature, will always shine through.......it's in there somewhere waiting for the trigger.

 

Nature shines through in well bred dogs, not bred for conformation but for work.....they just have a lot more about them than dogs bred from any old shite

 

There most certainly are dogs that are just born "wrong" in the head and that's a fact

Edited February 11, 2012 by WILF