buzzards

[Lab 10,979]

Looks like I've hit a nerve! "If you cant see that culling birds in a certain period of time and on estates especially where they are desimating game birds" & "Back to your eagles again and 'Man' say there causing damage becasue they f*****g are.......taking anything it could catch and costing people lots of money......money makes the f*****g world go round and if a couple of hook beaks have to lose out to that fact then so be it". And you say I'm the blinkered one? Again I draw your attention to the fact that you say these birds are a problem and are costing people money. Who caused the problem in the first place? Some how I don't think it was the birds! Just for the record, The world has been going round (spinning) since it was created! It has nothing to do with money.

 

At the risk of getting involved in this argument, do you agree with pest control at all? Or is it just the control of pests on game shoots you have a problem with. From where im standing, if a species population grows to a size where the damage it is causing becomes too much of a financial burden then it is a pest and culling becomes an option. Foxes, stoats, mink, magpies, crows are all pests on game shoots and farms depending on what the farm produces. My point of view is the only question to ask is "is the buzzard population locally at a level where they are in pest numbers?" if so surely as with other legitimate/legal pest species then a legal cull of some sort is just as ethical as culling foxes/rabbits/crows etc?

 

So back to my original question, and I mean it with no malice, do you agree with pest control?

 

I understand falconers/hawkers etc empathise with the hawk in a somewhat similar way that coursing men empathise with the hare, its a respect. In your case to a fellow hunter, in the coursingmans case to a respected quarry. The killing of either tend to have an emotional effect on the respective partys, me included, but I tend to try to rationalise and think of things logically, whether I like it or not.

Yes I do agree with legal pest control. But with this thread as was the same in the last one, Keepers never shoots raptors, do they? What is a load of bull! I have already stated in the last thread, I shoot, fish, ferret, fly hawks and work dogs. I know and understand what goes on but that doesn't mean to say that I am comfortable with it.....

 

Lab-tastic, take a look at these quotes both by you!

1) "I'm afraid the shooting world is a multi-million pound industry and supplies thousands of jobs up and done the counrty so if a few BOP's have to take a knock along the way then it should be legal too do so.....imo!!!!!!"

2) "costing people lots of money......money makes the f*****g world go round and if a couple of hook beaks have to lose out to that fact then so be it."

Who is the narrow minded one? This is why you haven't got an answer! And YES! They were here first.

Why is it in these debates its seems wrong to mention money ffs.........thats the whole reason that keepers/farmers/ landowners would like to see a control on these BOP. Now i've said that numerous times too you but you just deflect the matter and thats 100% because you have no alternative and you honestly believe that they aren't causing a problem, they were there first and you'll just have to lump attitude is mind boggling too me.

I wonder what would happen if 1 day the powers above decided to ban using BOP's to catch other birds, game or vermin, i wonder if you would just give it up becuase some twat in a suit said so............maybe you would, you seem like a very law abiding citizen to me....

[EskdaleHawks 8]

Looks like I've hit a nerve! "If you cant see that culling birds in a certain period of time and on estates especially where they are desimating game birds" & "Back to your eagles again and 'Man' say there causing damage becasue they f*****g are.......taking anything it could catch and costing people lots of money......money makes the f*****g world go round and if a couple of hook beaks have to lose out to that fact then so be it". And you say I'm the blinkered one? Again I draw your attention to the fact that you say these birds are a problem and are costing people money. Who caused the problem in the first place? Some how I don't think it was the birds! Just for the record, The world has been going round (spinning) since it was created! It has nothing to do with money.

 

At the risk of getting involved in this argument, do you agree with pest control at all? Or is it just the control of pests on game shoots you have a problem with. From where im standing, if a species population grows to a size where the damage it is causing becomes too much of a financial burden then it is a pest and culling becomes an option. Foxes, stoats, mink, magpies, crows are all pests on game shoots and farms depending on what the farm produces. My point of view is the only question to ask is "is the buzzard population locally at a level where they are in pest numbers?" if so surely as with other legitimate/legal pest species then a legal cull of some sort is just as ethical as culling foxes/rabbits/crows etc?

 

So back to my original question, and I mean it with no malice, do you agree with pest control?

 

I understand falconers/hawkers etc empathise with the hawk in a somewhat similar way that coursing men empathise with the hare, its a respect. In your case to a fellow hunter, in the coursingmans case to a respected quarry. The killing of either tend to have an emotional effect on the respective partys, me included, but I tend to try to rationalise and think of things logically, whether I like it or not.

Yes I do agree with legal pest control. But with this thread as was the same in the last one, Keepers never shoots raptors, do they? What is a load of bull! I have already stated in the last thread, I shoot, fish, ferret, fly hawks and work dogs. I know and understand what goes on but that doesn't mean to say that I am comfortable with it.....

 

Lab-tastic, take a look at these quotes both by you!

1) "I'm afraid the shooting world is a multi-million pound industry and supplies thousands of jobs up and done the counrty so if a few BOP's have to take a knock along the way then it should be legal too do so.....imo!!!!!!"

2) "costing people lots of money......money makes the f*****g world go round and if a couple of hook beaks have to lose out to that fact then so be it."

Who is the narrow minded one? This is why you haven't got an answer! And YES! They were here first.

Why is it in these debates its seems wrong to mention money ffs.........thats the whole reason that keepers/farmers/ landowners would like to see a control on these BOP. Now i've said that numerous times too you but you just deflect the matter and thats 100% because you have no alternative and you honestly believe that they aren't causing a problem, they were there first and you'll just have to lump attitude is mind boggling too me.

I wonder what would happen if 1 day the powers above decided to ban using BOP's to catch other birds, game or vermin, i wonder if you would just give it up becuase some twat in a suit said so............maybe you would, you seem like a very law abiding citizen to me....

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

[Millet 4,497]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

[EskdaleHawks 8]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

[Lab 10,979]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

[danw 1,748]

Strange how buzzards where controlled long before shooting became commercial isn't it? even henry the 8th and james the first saw fit but hey there you go.

I guess illegal persecution will continue and you guys will still get all teary eyed about it perhaps if you put forward some sensible alternatives but you don't in my eyes youse are all as bad as the anti's who object to badger culls.

 

any way here endeth my involvement in this thread enjoy the pic :thumbs:

 

[EskdaleHawks 8]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

But Millet does have a point! Pheasants and Redlegs are not indiginous to this country, are they? Which brings us back to the question of who caused the problem in the first place? Answers on a post card please..........

[Lab 10,979]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

But Millet does have a point! Pheasants and Redlegs are not indiginous to this country, are they? Which brings us back to the question of who caused the problem in the first place? Answers on a post card please..........

You'd better give up fishing then!!!!!

[EskdaleHawks 8]

Strange how buzzards where controlled long before shooting became commercial isn't it? even henry the 8th and james the first saw fit but hey there you go.

I guess illegal persecution will continue and you guys will still get all teary eyed about it perhaps if you put forward some sensible alternatives but you don't in my eyes youse are all as bad as the anti's who object to badger culls.

 

any way here endeth my involvement in this thread enjoy the pic :thumbs:

 

Actually! It was James the first that ordered the destruction of buzzards!

Henry viii only made egg collecting illegal, but excluded Buzzards.

Anyway, Nice pic which one is you?

Edited June 28, 2011 by EskdaleHawks

[EskdaleHawks 8]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

But Millet does have a point! Pheasants and Redlegs are not indiginous to this country, are they? Which brings us back to the question of who caused the problem in the first place? Answers on a post card please..........

You'd better give up fishing then!!!!!

Meaning?

[Lab 10,979]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

But Millet does have a point! Pheasants and Redlegs are not indiginous to this country, are they? Which brings us back to the question of who caused the problem in the first place? Answers on a post card please..........

You'd better give up fishing then!!!!!

Meaning?

Well the little fishy wishy was here first so do you really think you should be killing them?

[EskdaleHawks 8]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

But Millet does have a point! Pheasants and Redlegs are not indiginous to this country, are they? Which brings us back to the question of who caused the problem in the first place? Answers on a post card please..........

You'd better give up fishing then!!!!!

Meaning?

Well the little fishy wishy was here first so do you really think you should be killing them?

Who said I kill them? Haven't you heared of catch and release! And once again you seem to have avoided answering the question!

Edited June 28, 2011 by EskdaleHawks

[Lab 10,979]

I never said it was wrong to mention money! Nor have I said that I don't believe that raptors do not cause problems. What I have asked you several times is " Who caused the problems in the first place"? Something that you don't seem to want to answer?

For your information as from Nov 16th 2010 Falconry was given protected status as a ' living, cultural, human heritage' by UNESCO ( United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation) This is because it has been practiced in an unbroken chain for 4,500 yrs or so (wether you like or not). So I don't think that is will get banned.

Can you say the same for shooting? NO! The only thing that you can come back with is that it is a " multi-million pound industry"! This is true. But it doesn't make your argument right.

The definition of falconry is ' The practice of taking live quarry in its natural state with a trained Falcon, Hawk, or Eagle ( Bird of Prey). This is something they 'Naturally' you can't make them do it!! No matter how much power or money you have.

Yes I am a law abiding citizen, if I weren't would I have FAC and SGC......? I think not.

Your banging your head against a brick wall..but for what it is worth i 2 million% agree with you..it's easy to pick a gun up and shoot a farmed animal/bird that is why they is so many people doing it..but to fly a hawk/falcon or eagle is a lot harder and it makes you understand the survival need's of wild hawk's and what troubles they go through to live and rear chick's..

Like you say they where here a long time before the shooting fraternity turned up and that is where they should stay...

 

Edited to add.. fook the money side of thing's pheasants and red legs are not idigenous to this country as are not mink/rabbit's and load's of other pest's..BUT buzzard's are and should be left alone like other native species.

OOH! This could be interesting?

Na it won't be!!!! Cull equals controlled BOP numbers...... No cull means..... Well you know what that means!! Good luck.

But Millet does have a point! Pheasants and Redlegs are not indiginous to this country, are they? Which brings us back to the question of who caused the problem in the first place? Answers on a post card please..........

You'd better give up fishing then!!!!!

Meaning?

Well the little fishy wishy was here first so do you really think you should be killing them?

Who said I kill them? Haven't you heared of catch and release!

Yes I have and I've heard of Jackanory as well. So long hook beak...... No doubt we will meet again!!! Ahhahahahahaha

[lurchers 2,597]

its nice to see how things turn out but as for banning hunting with bop it couldnt happen as thats how they survive in the wild.but its like millet says,like knocking your head against the wall.£££££££££££££££££ 1st think later.

[arcticgun 4,548]

been an interesting rtead this thread way I see it is as most agree the shooting industry is a multi millon pound affair, and i have heard £25 per shot bird quoted by some then surely it can afford to lose some stock to the predators, which I assume these persons knew exsisted when the decided to hold shootins on there land to raise revenue.

 

I dont think that it is right at all to simply shot BOP's because they take easy pickings that would not be there unless someone was profiting form them being introduced. Now I fully understand that when you count all the potential sources of loss faced by the average keeper during the lead up too the season, knowing full well he will be judged on the results, is it any wonder some simply shoot the easiest predator to lay hands on?? likely most they are pushed to the limit, likely for the greed of the fella who owns the shoot and could of well afforded to buy surplus stockl in first place, afterall they the ones that decided to profit from changing the use of the land, why should other species be affected?? why should the keeper feel forced to risk prosecutuion and loss of job? all so that somebody can make a handsome profit

 

Im sure the 'country gents' that attend these sort of walked up shoots are 'genuine country men' who put the countrysides needs at the centre of their hearts so surely they would not want to see the BOPs simply removed form the countryside, just so they can have a better days sport?? or am I wrong and its all really just about kill rates, cos lets face it they noit hard to achieve when the stuffs forced at you and you got a shotty, well make that 20 shjotties blasting away

 

I dont see limited culling as the answer either the only way is to co exsist, so what if there aren't as many birds at the end of the day, not one person will starve, but a keeprs younfg family might just if he is forced to pull the trigger cos he fears for his job, FFS its a days sport nor should the buzzard etc die for being a buzzard

 

Just out of interest has anyone ever sucessfully removed 'rougue Bops' sucessfully? assuming like most animals BOps like a free luch, would there be any juice in leaving carcases of other pest species laid around where they frequent for easier pickings? just a though