Bogger 243 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i can honestly say i havent a personel problem with you i like and agree with some of your right wing posts in other threads i just think your talking like a c**t at times on this one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,260 Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 So far, I have really enjoyed reading all your different opinions. No body knows everything, and certainly not without prior experience be that on the job, the written word or just advice from others.....theres always something crops up that you didnt know. Anyone who thinks they just naturally know whats what is deluded IMHO So I will continue to read all your good input and hopefully a few of you will teach me something new along the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i can honestly say i havent a personel problem with you i like and agree with some of your right wing posts in other threads i just think your talking like a c**t at times on this one Well thanks for enlightening me Bogger, i simply added my opinion to a why thread?? i answered in the sence of WHY did i?? Anyhow i think we could both agree another decent thread has nosed dived on THL and i'll be even lesser likely to post in future so the floors yours Bogger . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sportingspaniles 5 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Good question mate, i'd love to know the answer, i've had the pleasure of watching (at one time) the best field trial dogs (and proper working) in the country being trained and they had nowt but socialisation and basics until 7 months or so and then in a reletivly short space of time learnt a huge deal. Now that just doesn't seem to work with running dogs, they run amok if not given shit to learn young it seems. who did these "best trial dogs" belong to? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bogger 243 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i wont lose any sleep over it doug! suppose in a round about way i meant its better to learn from others or teach your self instead of a book Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BULLDOUG 199 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 i wont lose any sleep over it doug! suppose in a round about way i meant its better to learn from others or teach your self instead of a book Fook me mate, why didnt you just say that :laugh: . I concur YIS D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I always start training early with any dog,the pup i have here i taught to 'sit and 'down' in a hours training the day after I brought him home at 7 weeks. I would do this with any dog regardless of breed or type. All dogs will benefit from early socialisation to tasks that they will be expected to encounter in the future and of course the world in general. But The cruxs of the matter is doing this at the right rate to suit the dog. Leaving the training of any type of dog till 12 months is making the job much harder for yourself. I am not talking entering to work, just training as the whole 'entering at what age' debate is whole other can of worms Right al just clarify a few things before someone decides to go out and get a pup and not speak to it for 12 months.... Theres training a dog and theres teaching a dog basics. Sit, stay, heel, fetch and recall can all be done from a very early age.....christ you can throw a ball to a 6 week old puppy and get it to come back too you but thats not training. If you did get it to come back the first time by the second or third it will have ran off or dropped it to smell a bit shit on the grass so in effect doing it multiple times is nothing but pointless until the dog has reached an age to understand what you are instructing it to do. When i'm out walking my dogs and have pups they get all the basics learned too them on a walk. They are told to sit for a second or two, i will throw bits of branches and stuff for them to pick up and i will call them into heel for a few steps and then send them on again. They are learning all the time from the older dogs a long the way too. Many dogs have been wasted by over training them when too young.....they just give up and dont want to do it. They dont see working for you as there passion anymore but more of a bore and when that has happened you have lost the bond with your dog.... Speaking for gundogs they do not need to be used for picking up/ beating until they are 2 years of age so you will have a year too push the skills you require like.....sending your dog back, getting it steady on the whistle and hand signals..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6pack 60 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I don't ask much from my dogs so training is done by repetition. Rinse and repeat. Don't set them up to fail. Starting early doesn't mean not letting a pup be a pup. If the training is kept light and fun, it's more habit building than training. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MOO 730 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) I have to agree I have never seen the point or seen the advantages in leaving a gundog till it is a year old before starting to seriuosly training it but that seems to be the way of most gundog lads Edited June 22, 2011 by MOO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,624 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Basic obedience training aside im a believer in that the more training you need to put into a dog the more likely the dog should not have been bred in the first place....we all know far too many pups are bred in any breed of dog working/sporting dogs are no different.....but if its been a good breeding from proven lineage that pup should inherit a certain amount of natural talent to cope with the task its intended to do,the more you as an owner have to put in the less it has picked up through its genes. The mistake i think most people make with any sporting/working dog is being impatient,they think because a dog might be full grown he is mature yet inside they might be like babies all dogs mature at different rates just because a dog looks an impressive physical specimen dont mean he is ready mentally and many dogs are broken before they have started....just my opinion like. Edited June 22, 2011 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lab 10,979 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Basic obedience training aside im a believer in that the more training you need to put into a dog the more likely the dog should not have been bred in the first place....we all know far too many pups are bred in any breed of dog working/sporting dogs are no different.....but if its been a good breeding from proven lineage that pup should inherit a certain amount of natural talent to cope with the task its intended to do,the more you as an owner have to put in the less it has picked up through its genes. The mistake i think most people make with any sporting/working dog is being impatient,they think because a dog might be full grown he is mature yet inside they might be like babies all dogs mature at different rates just because a dog looks an impressive physical specimen dont mean he is ready mentally and many dogs are broken before they have started....just my opinion like. Gnasher you can have the best breeding in the world and some of the litter will be just be shit......and if they go to people who dont know jack then even the ones that could have made something will be shit as well. It might be in there but its your job to bring it out... and if you push it then you'll fail......imo of course... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,624 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Gnasher you can have the best breeding in the world and some of the litter will be just be shit......and if they go to people who dont know jack then even the ones that could have made something will be shit as well. It might be in there but its your job to bring it out... and if you push it then you'll fail......imo of course... Oh absolutely its a joint effort,all im saying is the dogs you have to work double hard with very often didnt pick up the best of what their genes had to offer.....i accept the saying " you get out what you put in "....but i also believe the saying " you cant put in what nature left out " Personally i always found the raising of pups one of the most fascinating and challenging aspects of being involved with dogs full stop. Edited June 22, 2011 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dare 1,103 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 My dog wasn't able too even come off the lead when I got him. Hed now walk without a lead but don't let...his nicknamed in my house shadow lol minute I leave the room his coming with me. Dog comes too his name, sits, waits and goes to his bed when told...don't see what else I'd need teach him oh and hell leave when told...got him and he was a kennel dog he went a piss in the house the 2nd day we had him told him like you'd tell a pup as it was all new too him and since then his not had any problems...don't think that makes him a clever dog though because he does some thick things...he does though flip up the bin lid when his came back from the evening walk as too tell you he wants feeding the cheeky sod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JR Yipp 111 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 and what about terriers? like teaching them to be quiet. on a serious not, my opinion is all dogs need training for their requirements from day 1, mainly through exposure and socializing to what they are expected to do, anything more can be good but often unnecessary and confusing. train for purpose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stewie 3,387 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) alot forget gundogs only do half the job as they flush rabbits for someone to shoot whereas a lurcher flushes them for itself to catch,kill and THEN retrieve Edited June 22, 2011 by lurcher1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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