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Trespass,poaching,Sight seeing, ok! ?


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Quite right potential wealth! The trouble is farmers only know farming and that's their life.They moan about it but would never give up on it, it's in their blood. Obviously there's a minority who manage to work the system to their advantage and those who could potentally become millionaires through land sales but for most it's just a way of life.

Hats off to you for doing your bit for society if everyone was like yourself and stopped sponging off the goverment the country would be in a far better state.

Again hats off to you for not poaching because this is the main reason permission is so difficult to obtain. Who wants to grant permission to people you can't trust when you hear of so much theft and damage going on.

 

As far as future markets they mean nothing in farming you don't know what you are going to get until you are actually in the ring Im afraid.

 

I think you find that alot of farmers don't give permission because they are tight, they can get people to pay to use their land. They don't trust anyone becuase their social circles are small and they think strangers are after their wealth. Whereas I can pay my way but still get turned away, with having insurance, a decent motor and a good job.

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Its sad times [bANNED TEXT] old school poachers are embarrased to be called poachers by the mindless idiots that get called poachers.

Whoa... Steady on old chap... Yes, I agree with your sentiments but you do shoot yourself in the foot so think a bit before you mouth off in writing in public.   The risk of eye damage is from very

Ok, first off for your hill farmer man to recieve £90000 in subsidies, he either has thousands of sheep,thousands of acres or he's pulling your plonker because he knows how much this winds you up. S

Moley - my girls family are all farmers, over many generations.

 

Based on price per acre youll maybe get £60 per ton for winter barley.That was end of year price for N Wales.

A good years harvest per acre maybe be 6 tons.

An average year possibly 3 tons.

 

Last years winter barley in North Wales was £60 per ton with an average of 3 tons per acre.

 

So £180 of barley per acre.

Plus around 90 small square bales per acre. Small bales at £2 per bale (large round bales at possibly £25 per bale)

 

So income £270 per acre.

 

Now take off the cost of half a days work driving the combine & baler round 1 acre, the cost of fuel for the combine, the cost of fuel for the tractor to do the bales. Then take in to account the overheads, of insurance, depreciation, storage etc etc

 

Now tell me whos making money? There is a very good reason why farmers are getting SPS from the EU - They bloody need it.

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I think you find that alot of farmers don't give permission because they are tight, they can get people to pay to use their land. They don't trust anyone becuase their social circles are small and they think strangers are after their wealth. Whereas I can pay my way but still get turned away, with having insurance, a decent motor and a good job.

 

 

Farmers get a lot of thefts through out the year, cattle and sheep rustling still goes on in a big way, there was a 20yr old lad that got caught with a load of stolen sheep just a week ago.

Farm machinery goes missing and dont even get on to the theft of diesel and heating oil in rural areas.

 

I dont know about you, but if it were me I wouldnt want to give permission for anyone to shoot on my land.

 

Anyone who gets permission to shoot on a farmers land is in a bloody privileged position.

 

And you have the gall to say farmers are tight fisted with a small social circle and think strangers are after their wealth?

 

Yes they are tight fisted for a reason, they had to diversify because the country sold them out, they got screwed by the EU and the big supermarkets.

 

They have small social circles? I think youll find that we all have small social circles mate ( and dont count facebook as thats bollocks!)EDITED Im wrong, most farmers have a Very Big social circle, they go to markets and catch up with friends from around the country and have doe for generations. So they have more friends than you pal!

 

They think strangers are after their wealth? ofcourse they are! thieving non farming scroats are nicking whatever they can get their hands on!!

 

So have a think before you moan about having shooting insurance, a good job and a decent car - FFS Pikeys have good jobs and very decent cars!

 

People who want to shoot stuff in the countryside on other peoples land...jesus mate, its their land and you moan that they wont let you shoot on it! There must be some reason why they dont give you permission :hmm:

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Quite right potential wealth! The trouble is farmers only know farming and that's their life.They moan about it but would never give up on it, it's in their blood. Obviously there's a minority who manage to work the system to their advantage and those who could potentally become millionaires through land sales but for most it's just a way of life.

Hats off to you for doing your bit for society if everyone was like yourself and stopped sponging off the goverment the country would be in a far better state.

Again hats off to you for not poaching because this is the main reason permission is so difficult to obtain. Who wants to grant permission to people you can't trust when you hear of so much theft and damage going on.

 

As far as future markets they mean nothing in farming you don't know what you are going to get until you are actually in the ring Im afraid.

 

 

 

I think you find that alot of farmers don't give permission because they are tight, they can get people to pay to use their land. They don't trust anyone becuase their social circles are small and they think strangers are after their wealth. Whereas I can pay my way but still get turned away, with having insurance, a decent motor and a good job.

 

Farmers don't give permission because they are tight???? That's the most rediculous thing I've read!

How do you feel when that salesman knocks the door? Is your first reaction that he's genuine? No back of your mind you are thinking con artist! How would you feel if he then asks for permission to come into your property under the cover of darkness and sneak around while your in bed?

It's not hard to obtain the trust from farmers if you are trustworthy yourself. I admit it's harder for lampers with dogs because what farmer in their right mind is going to allow a killing machine to run through their stock if it hasn't been proven it's safe with sheep? Don't get me wrong I've been to loads of farms, turned up and been given permission to lamp there and then and thought about the risk he's taking on me. If it's dogs you use then you start by going to arable farms or dairy farms and get yourself known. You then build up the trust with them before you approach the stock farms around them to say how you are controlling the vermin for them and could do that much of a better job if you could go after that fox youve lamped on neighbouring property without poaching it.

I know of farmers who shoot themselves who wouldn't dream of giving permission to novices to make everything lampshy.

There's farmers who don't have the same mentality as ourselves for controlling vermin and want everything left alone.

They say no for many reasons not because they are tight.

If they say no you then say thank you for your time, here's my number if ever you do need me and move on to try another farm.

As you must know yourself as you also work hard: You don't get anything for nothing you have to earn it!!!

 

edit: Markha you beat me to it! The only time these fingers are quick is if they are on a trigger!

I agree totally good reply!

This threads about poachers, I think they are scum and spoil it for all us decent law abiding individuals. Again just my opinion!

Edited by sako
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The main reasons round here that permission is not given as its tied up by pigeon shooting clubs that have long waiting lists. I ask for ferreting permission mostly with dogs, I get permission off people with horses, I don't have a problem with that. However farmers are the complete opposite.

If I want to go shooting ill pay for it, don't have a problem with that. I like to work the dogs.

 

'thieving non farming scroats are nicking whatever they can get their hands on!!'

 

- proved my point, prejudice as well.

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The main reasons round here that permission is not given as its tied up by pigeon shooting clubs that have long waiting lists. I ask for ferreting permission mostly with dogs, I get permission off people with horses, I don't have a problem with that. However farmers are the complete opposite.

If I want to go shooting ill pay for it, don't have a problem with that. I like to work the dogs.

 

'thieving non farming scroats are nicking whatever they can get their hands on!!'

 

- proved my point, prejudice as well.

 

I can assure you payment wouldn't get you much permission it's all down to trust. That said there would be some quite prepared to to make a few shillings. There is a farm near me but I most certainly wouldn't call them farmers.Dogs are the biggest problem farmers get so much trouble with them worrying the sheep they say no because it's safer than taking a gamble and the hassle that could result from it. Again you need to prove the dogs are safe. You need to start with just ferrets and nets and gain the TRUST of the farmer and then ask about using the dogs.

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'thieving non farming scroats are nicking whatever they can get their hands on!!'

 

- proved my point, prejudice as well.

 

Grow up pal! Where has the prejudice come from? Of course its non farming scroats who steal from farmers, farmers don't steal from each other.

It has nothing to do with prejudice! Believe me! Im a brummy 'saesneg' (derogatory word for englander) who is ex squaddy, ex 'towny' who gets permission to shoot on a fair few acres of Welsh farmers land, Welsh Farmers who are very Pro Wales, who still to this day slag off the English and not so long ago were burning down the holiday cottages of 'saesnegs' with 2nd homes up here.

So dont talk about prejudice pal, why do I get permission and you dont?

Do you want to hear a type cast comment? perhaps your just a thieving scumbag with a lurcher too? easy to play the typecast/prejudice game isnt it?

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sako, the farmer i,m on about does get 90000k a year and these days farmers are not paid on headage,they claim the subsidies thru other ways , taking sheep off the hill , not grazing certain area,s etc,i have spent all my life working for farmers one way or another (exept the last 3 years)so i have experience of farmers and the way some farm, believe me i have seen some pitiful sights

 

one lad on here says his wife gets £15 per hour for doing a job most of us couldn,t stomache, think back 10 years , foot and mouth , farmers getting £15 per hour to clean up there own shitty farms , the more mess the more time it took and the more money they made , even hiring out thier own gear to themselves and claiming it back

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hi all there has been a number of posters about this thread...and i fully agree with alot of what has been said...i personaly threatened to shot a bloke who was on the farm land that i work on have done for the last 19 yrs i have sole permission and on occation take others out with me...now to my point i drive a 4X4 every day but not around the fields it does do damage and costs money when the crops can not grow where vehicles have drove BUT WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME WHO DRIVE A 4x4 SO DONT TAR US ALL WITH THE SAME BRUSH yes you might get people drive theirs across fields but some dont including me.

 

 

paul

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i reckon these antis are clever people they pay ,hire,do themselves driving crops,smashing gates etc to get all lurcher work banned,and all the farmers are against dogs,basically we,us hunting people are slowly f....k it up for ourselves.

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sako, the farmer i,m on about does get 90000k a year and these days farmers are not paid on headage,they claim the subsidies thru other ways , taking sheep off the hill , not grazing certain area,s etc,i have spent all my life working for farmers one way or another (exept the last 3 years)so i have experience of farmers and the way some farm, believe me i have seen some pitiful sights

 

one lad on here says his wife gets £15 per hour for doing a job most of us couldn,t stomache, think back 10 years , foot and mouth , farmers getting £15 per hour to clean up there own shitty farms , the more mess the more time it took and the more money they made , even hiring out thier own gear to themselves and claiming it back

is that why some farmers infected there own stock for money off government :blink:

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sako, the farmer i,m on about does get 90000k a year and these days farmers are not paid on headage,they claim the subsidies thru other ways , taking sheep off the hill , not grazing certain area,s etc,i have spent all my life working for farmers one way or another (exept the last 3 years)so i have experience of farmers and the way some farm, believe me i have seen some pitiful sights

 

one lad on here says his wife gets £15 per hour for doing a job most of us couldn,t stomache, think back 10 years , foot and mouth , farmers getting £15 per hour to clean up there own shitty farms , the more mess the more time it took and the more money they made , even hiring out thier own gear to themselves and claiming it back

 

You've got yourself mixed up you are talking about enviromental payments. Farmers still get subsidies based on historic payments but as I said to achieve the amount you are talking about would need a very large farm or large numbers of sheep. This enviromental payment you are on about is supposed to benifit everyone, more birds for birdwatchers, more pretty flowers for walkers and to allow more trees to grow and produce good clean oxygen for everyone to breathe etc. They pay what seems like large payments to cover the loss of keeping less stock. In reality if the farmer was to sell 600 sheep which produce 1000 lambs@ £50 thats £50000 loss PA just due to cutting back the sheep.

As for foot and mouth that caused so many breakdowns for farmers who dedicated their whole lives to improving their flock/herd to the best of their abilty and then to loose it overnight never to be replaced most were suicidal. The REAL farmers wouldn't dream about thinking about the money, their stock comes first! Granted there were lots of farmers jumping on the band wagon getting jobs if they could, and I can understand the desperation of some farmers facing bankrupcy hoping for a way out. That year those prices were on the floor farmers were in desperate need of finacial help and I agree the ones with less morals came out better.

It sounds as if the area you live in holds the riff raff of farmers!

I can't understand how you can struggle to find permission's when you've worked so much with farmers, you should have built up more than enough trust!

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I know this thread was about poaching/poachers on your permissions.

 

However, it has started to show up the fact that there are a fair few people who have no idea about rural life, farming and agriculture in general.

Now there is nothing wrong with that, but instead of moaning about people getting money to do nothing, or not giving you permission to shoot, Why not do a bit of proper research and learn a little, this will help you see things from a different point of view.

 

As Sako was saying about farmers being given funds not to farm. Why do you think the Lake Distric National Park is so busy, so popular and looks all pretty and countryfied? Because most of the farms and land are either owned by the National Trust or by the Lowther Estate, these are the largest land owners in the Lakes.

 

Now the lake district farmers get lots of money to do nothing, well not really, they get lots of money to keep the countryside in the lake district looking like it should, ie with sheep, cows, goats, hens, chickens, working farms, ploughed fields, planting of hedgerows, oh and cover crops that hold game that you want to shoot.

 

Why do they get paid loads of grant money to do this? Because farming there is not financially viable, and with out the NT/Lowthers and EU grants the Lake district would be farmless, animal less and a pretty barren area.

Now imagine if there were no livestock for children to see, campsites noone wanted to go to, the tourist industry would shrink and the Lakes would start losing money very fast.

 

And this is not an isolated example, here in North Wales the same thing goes on, example: Farmer A owns one side of a valley and farmer B owns the otherside. Farmer A gets paid money Not to graze livestock as the powers that be have decided they want him not to graze his particular area. Farmer B on the otherhand gets paid to graze sheep on his land.

 

So management of the countryside is a very big thing and our land needs protecting, the animal and bird life there and its sustainability for the future is helped by landowners and farmers who get funds to do it.

 

So do some research and learn a bit about the countryside local to where you live, learn about the issues facing landowners and farmers and in taking some interest you may just get the permissions to shoot/run dogs and you'll also know why some farmers/landowners get EU grants, youll also be a broader minded individual who no longer gets the hump about farmers driving round in shiny 4x4 and getting loads of grant money and then not giving you permission to shoot/run dogs on their land.

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'thieving non farming scroats are nicking whatever they can get their hands on!!'

 

- proved my point, prejudice as well.

 

Grow up pal! Where has the prejudice come from? Of course its non farming scroats who steal from farmers, farmers don't steal from each other.

It has nothing to do with prejudice! Believe me! Im a brummy 'saesneg' (derogatory word for englander) who is ex squaddy, ex 'towny' who gets permission to shoot on a fair few acres of Welsh farmers land, Welsh Farmers who are very Pro Wales, who still to this day slag off the English and not so long ago were burning down the holiday cottages of 'saesnegs' with 2nd homes up here.

So dont talk about prejudice pal, why do I get permission and you dont?

Do you want to hear a type cast comment? perhaps your just a thieving scumbag with a lurcher too? easy to play the typecast/prejudice game isnt it?

 

What are you on about? You have gone into some little rant.

Why don't you get so much permission anymore? The ban for one, farmers don't want you on land incase you run something you shouldn't even by accident. They are paranoid about people nicking from them, not sure how that works if you have given the farmer proof of identity etc and they just don't like people on their land because they hate the public in general, how many of them moan about public footpaths...

The Lake district is a bit different to the lowlands and a complete different end of the scale. Why would farmers want people on their land when they can get the rabbits gassed for free? We are talking about arable land not hill farms, tell them to specialise in some rare breed sheep on a smaller scale and sell them to Marco Pierre White or Rick Stein or Waitrose for a sky high profit. You should tell your farmer friends quantity is not where it's at, quality.

If they don't have to produce food anymore because of getting subsidies not to, diversify, in tourist areas they are sitting on a goldmine.

As for shooting, as I said before, I'll pay for it if I want it.

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Richie,

Its a waste of time talking to you, enjoy your narrow minded life of middle class self sufficient wanabe living, you obviously know all there is about arable and livestock farming, oh and as you keep telling us, you dont mind paying for shooting and you have a decent car.

 

Bye :bye:

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