A little help for a firearm newbi

[rossy08 33]

Hello all

 

first of all i'm sorry if this has been done to death.

 

i'm in the prosses of applieing for my FAC/SGC, im not to concerd with the hole shot gun thing but as you can applie for both,i thought i may as well,never no i may get into it,as many of my shooting freinds already own SG's

 

now this is where i need your help, i understand terjectory me/bc and all the likes from my many years of airguning. but i know very little about fire arm rifles and witch is better for what,

 

i would like to have more range for bunni shooting,ie,100yards or maybe a little more,

may be the odd fox.

 

from reading through post i get the impression that some of the rifle calibers can only be good for 60yards due to ammo.ect. this is nothing more than what my .177 air rifle can do,thus no good to me for what i would like.

 

this will be my first fac so i dont want to be applying for the larger cal's if i can help it, i see no reason why i wont be granted it as i already have had police checks and spocken to my local FO,as i work with air rifles and hold a RFD.

 

so point me in the right directon of what kind of cal will suit my needs best,if you could also tell me why it would be very much apreciated.

 

many thanks sorry its a bit long winded.

 

Andy

[sako 23]

Andy my opinion would be a .17hmr for mainly rabbits. I've never owned one but I have used one they are much flatter shooting than the .22rf but the sub sonic round in the .22 with sound mod is pretty quiet it's almost like an air gun it sounds s***e but effective for rabbits if you follow the rainbow of the bullet and hit them.

People say they do pull off 100yrd head shots with the .22 which I would imagine takes a lot of practise where a .17 would be a lot easier. Here's an example of the .22...... I zeroed it at 70yrds went out after a few rabbits and missed more than I hit. That said that's the first time I've gone out on rabbits with my .22 in ten years of owning it so again I need the practise learning the tragectory.

I shoot a 22-250 I love it but I mainly shoot foxes, rabbits have a tendancy to explode. It's simple to hit rabbits with at whatever distance but expensive.

Im currently varying my fac for a .204 seems like people love them or hate them not as much power as the 22-250 but I want it for nightvision so want less recoil.

A popular round might be a .223 same sort of power as a .204 but much more choice of ammo. The .17's are a great round and do drop foxes but maybe not as humanely as others at distance.

 

Hope this helps a little, someone will else will post to advise you better! You will find everyone has got thier own particular choice of preference to calibre so just read and take on board the advice and make your own informed choice.

Personally I prefer to shoot rabbits with a shot gun when they run off just to give them a sporting chance!

Edited February 16, 2011 by sako

[rossy08 33]

thank you for the help there Sako.

 

after more reading through older post i'm starting to understand a little better was cal's for what.

 

i'm planning on putting a couple of cal's down when i send the forms in, i will mainly be shooting rabbits,and as i say would like to be over the range of my air rifles. ie 50 yards plus up to a good 100.

 

i will be wanting to take the odd fox,when required to, wont be hunting them unless asked to do so by the farmer,which is why im thinking off 2 cal's on the ticket. one for the fox and the other for the main use off bunnies and a few long range corvids.

 

is this the right thing to be doing?? as im getting the impression there ant a cal thats good for both at my choisen ranges?

 

iv been hunting for well over ten years,and as like most am very much against inhumane shots, i understand there will be a curved terjectory that will alter from cal to cal,and even change when using different ammo.

 

its looking like .17hmr and may be .223.

 

however some of my shooting may be at night and would like the guns to be as quiet as poss,so not to disturb.

 

thanks for your help pal

atb

Andy

edit to say i'm not concirned with the end state of the rabbits as long as its humain, ones for eating will be shot with air rifle.

Edited February 16, 2011 by rossy08

[matt_hooks 188]

Rossy, the .22 will give you a good range increase over the .177. Spend the time to learn the trajectory, as you would with an air rifle, and it's more than capable of 100 yard headshots. It's also very quiet with subsonic ammunition, which is a HUGE advantage in a lot of areas. My .22LR is actually quieter than any of my air rifles, no idea why but it just is.

 

The .22, with a well placed shot, will take foxes out to 30 or 40 yards, which obviously you can't do with the air rifle.

 

The .17 has advantages, and it has disadvantages. The main disadvantage is the noise. Even with a £200 moderator, you can't do anything about the supersonic crack of the high velocity round. Also the small pill loses energy quickly downrange.

 

The .22 is much cheaper to shoot than the .17, and there is far more .22 kit out there so much more chance of getting a good deal on a rifle.

 

Pretty much every FAC will have a slot for a .22LR, it's the most popular chambering by far, worldwide. It does have huge advantages over air, even FAC air, and with a 40gr bullet with around 100 ft.lb of energy, it has plenty of energy. The trajectory is flatter than a .177 legal limit rifle, and the range is much further.

 

You will almost certainly not get a rimfire conditioned specifically for foxes. What constabulary are you under? Some will give the Home Office recommended "any other legal quarry (AOLQ)" condition, so I can use my .22, or my .243, to take foxes. If you don't get that condition, then you will probably need to get a centrefire to be conditioned for foxes.

 

The .22WMR is another option. More energy than the .17, and better downrange energy delivery. It delivers the 40gr bullet that the .22LR uses, but at a much higher speed, and hence more than three times the energy.

 

If you're going for a centrefire, I would recommend the .243. It's cheaper to run than the .223, and gives you the option of taking deer if the opportunity presents. Some forces will allow a .243 for foxes, others won't. There's no rhyme nor reason behind it, as a .243 is capable of good, clean, long range kills on foxes. If you can get someone to say you have permission to shoot deer on their land, then you might be able to get the .243 conditioned for deer but with "AOLQ" which will allow you to use it on foxes too.

 

That's all a bit of a ramble. Hopefully some of it might be useful.

 

BTW, re the SGC, it's a good idea to apply for both at the same time. It's only £10 extra, and you will almost certainly end up applying for it anyway. Also it allows you to borrow a shotgun from a friend, carry it unsupervised and use it where you have permission, rather than having to be supervised (there is no such allowance with firearms, you need to have the weapon on your ticket to be able to carry/use it for section one firearms)

[rossy08 33]

hi there matt and thank you for takeing the time to type that very informative replie.

 

SPA on its way to you for that.

 

you have given me a lot to think about and mull over, but it has raised a question.

 

the main permission that im useing for my fac application is all crop farming,no livestock.

And thus means the farmer there dont have a problem with the foxes on his land as they help keep the bunni population in check.

 

my fac and this land is all under notts police (nottingham) however my other permissions where i do get asked about foxes is under derbyshire police, i no the land there has been cleard for fire arms but up to what level i have yet to find out.

 

is there any kind of condisions re my licence and useing the guns on them under different police's durestrictions.

 

it seams to me to be a good idea to applie for sgc at the same time,i may not even buy a sg but you never no and for £10 extra id rather have the choice. as from time to time i do go clay shooting with freinds.

 

my other question is, from standing and prone, how far will the .22lr bullet travel befor the trjectory curve lands it on the deck, if that makes sence to you. i no it will alter due to different ammo condisions ect, but if you could give me a rough idea.

 

many thanks for your help.

 

Andy

edit to say forget the last bit iv just found an answer. thanks

Edited February 16, 2011 by rossy08

[Jonophilpott 0]

Take the foxes out = More bunnies for you

 

Ive had the same dilema im currently in the process too.

 

Unlike you though ive ive not shot Air rifles out at 50-60 yards and ive been advised to go for the .22 to "get my eye in" and learn.

 

When i went to my local FAD he showed me both.

One thing i will say is the .22 Is unbelievably quiet! im willing to sacrifice the extra power from the .17.

Alot Cheaper Also! Ive just put a deposit on my Rifle... Brand New Synthetic Stock 10 Shot semi-auto Mossberg 702 + Decent Scope + Mod £200!

 

The cheapest .17 he could offer me was £150 and it was like made in 1965 lol.

 

The only way id be getting a .17 was if i was comfident enough that i was going to get a rabbit with every other shot and sell them on after to compensate for ammunition costs etc.

 

Im only young so hay what do i know but thats my opinion

[rossy08 33]

Take the foxes out = More bunnies for you

 

Ive had the same dilema im currently in the process too.

 

Unlike you though ive ive not shot Air rifles out at 50-60 yards and ive been advised to go for the .22 to "get my eye in" and learn.

 

When i went to my local FAD he showed me both.

One thing i will say is the .22 Is unbelievably quiet! im willing to sacrifice the extra power from the .17.

Alot Cheaper Also! Ive just put a deposit on my Rifle... Brand New Synthetic Stock 10 Shot semi-auto Mossberg 702 + Decent Scope + Mod £200!

 

The cheapest .17 he could offer me was £150 and it was like made in 1965 lol.

 

The only way id be getting a .17 was if i was comfident enough that i was going to get a rabbit with every other shot and sell them on after to compensate for ammunition costs etc.

 

Im only young so hay what do i know but thats my opinion

lol.

can see your point with the foxes mate but i'm not into killing them unless i have to.

 

i do use air rifle alot and have done for many years so i do have the advantage of understandig ballistics and the likes, but my knoweledge of firearms is minimul at best, hence the questions,

cheers for your input pal

atb

Andy

[sako 23]

If your begining to think you want a .22 you,ve now got to choose do you want a semi automatic or bolt action. The semi is great fun on running rabbits if there's a safe backstop, but most will tell you if you are serious about shooting them with a .22 get a single shot. It must be so you try harder not to miss!

.22 ammo is rediculously cheap as said but personally it would be the .17 for rabbits.

Wait until someone with both .22 and .17 gives you the advice. Im sure a .17 will drop rabbits out 150yrds. If you were to aim a foot high maybe more and hit them with a .22 that probably would kill them to as the box says the bullets travel a mile and a half.

You WILL MISS more rabbits with a .22 than a .17

If you want 1 gun for everything a .243 is the answer but if you are only shooting 200yrd rabbit or fox you dont need something that big. If you bought a .22 and .223 you would end up leaving the .22 in the house and just use the .223 for everything.

Personal choice would be .17 for rabbits, 22-250 or 243 for fox you then wouldn't just use one rifle after buying two!

[rossy08 33]

well thanks for all your advice, iv got a lot to be thinking about.

 

think there will defo be a bolt action .22lr, but its the other that i still cant decide on.

 

more research need i think.

 

thanks again

 

atb

Andy

[AzMaN 0]

If you bought a .22 and .223 you would end up leaving the .22 in the house and just use the .223 for everything.

 

 

I seccond that, i have both a .22 and a .223 and the .223 gets most of the action when im out, but i would never get rid of my .22 especialy in the summer months when our horses are out grazing at night, .223 would scare the **** out of them but they just look at the .22 shot and then go back to eating.

 

it all depends on the ranges your looking at shooting to and if you intend to step up to deer in the future.

 

But ive heared they are very difficult in some places to get a centerfire on first ticket anyways, so i say get a .22 for a year, then step up to a centerfire if you feel the need to.

Edited February 18, 2011 by AzMaN

[stubby 175]

If you were to aim a foot high maybe more and hit them with a .22 that probably would kill them to as the box says the bullets travel a mile and a half.

You WILL MISS more rabbits with a .22 than a .17

 

why would you need to aim a foot high

if you know your going to be shooting at 100yds, then zero in at 100yds, dead bunnies every time,knowing your mildots/hold over/hold under means theres no need to aim a foot high, if rabbits appear at 60yds, its simply 5 clicks down on my scope,

[sako 23]

I wasn't talking about 60 yrds!

150 yrds is way to optimistic to hit a rabbit with a .22lr every shot . Dont get me wrong if I could be bothered to go out and practise following the rainbow with my .22 then I'd learn the tradjectory a bit better and do more than pull off lucky shots. This thread is for a 'firearm newbie' therefore my opinion is .17hmr for rabbits simple as that. Everyones entitled to their opinion and granted you must be an expert in the field of .22's but I don't rate them and when I miss it affects my living so it's centrefire all they way for me. A lot of people who shoot rabbits with a lamp tend to then move on to a night vision, how are you supposed to judge the distance for your hold over and under then? A flatter shooting round becomes a lot more favourable with the nv.

If the .22 is zeroed for 100yrds how much hold over for 150?

If a .22 is zeroed for 100yrds how much hold under is there at 25?

If it's zeroed for 50yrds how much for hold over for 100yrds?

Edited February 19, 2011 by sako

[rossy08 33]

i must confess that im favoring the .22 due to the noise issue, some of my land just wont cattor for a loud rifle.

 

i need more range than what the air rifles are offering as alot of the bunnies are getting very wise to me now, the main land for which the gun will be used are huge open feilds with very little in the way of cover, the only cover in some is the crops that are growing.

and i dont think that the farmer will like the idea of me dragging my self through curshing what i'm there to protect. ill give you an idea of how the land looks at the min.

 

 

 

and in summer

 

.

 

thinking bolt action as iv read alot about some of the seim's being funny with ammo indexing, (could be wrong on this tho)

 

i will be treating said rifle the same as i do my air rifles, spending time on the targets to work out the terjectory,and find my hold under/over at ranges befor i start to hunt with the rifle.

[danw 1,748]

After reading your initial post the first thing you need to do is forget all the crap about a .223 or.243 if you are targeting rabbits and the ODD fox then their is simply no need it is a straight up choice between .22lr,.17hmr and the .22mag If noise is an issue then .22lr if not then .17hmr I wouldn't even bother with the .22mag as the .17hmr has the edge it most police forces are happy to grant any of them for vermin and occasional fox

[Jonophilpott 0]

Semi-auto arent all that bad you just have to find the right ammo for your gun as some may catch on the casing when being pushed into barrel or some may pull to left or push to the right a little etc but its just trying all the different types and finding the one for the gun.

 

Sorry guys buts there no point getting irate on here on each others opinions... In my opinion i look at it as a sport/challenge zero in at 60 with no adjustment and do your best! Therefor it doesnt matter which one you go for unless your bothered about distance or noise