trouble with blacknecks

[Blakloks 5]

I joined a syndicate this year with about 14 guns on it they had more last year and they put down 1200 pheasants but nobody bothered there arse to feed so the birds wondered this year we only put down 600 and a hardcore unit of 4 of us has been feeding hoppers trouble is we dont seem to be shooting alot 25 being are best to date it is quite a large area but we have been feeding all the main drives in the hope to keep the birds in the middle of the shoot i was hoping we could shoot 50% of our birds but it doesnt look like thats going to happen are these blacknecks wondering or is there anything we can do to improve things??? The plan is to put more down nxt year but we could get the same problem

[Sighthound 49]

Without seeing the land it's hard to say.

It doesn't matter how many birds you put down and how much grain you put down if the conditions are not right.

Does your ground have plenty of cover, game crops etc. Are you keeping on top of the foxes etc.

I help run a small shoot and we only put down 300 birds, we have had 4 shoots this year and will have two more before the season ends. Our average is about 40 birds a day,

[Blakloks 5]

there is alot of felled forest that is regrowing so there is alot of rough cover there isnt game crop there we do see birds when we do the drives but i think we should be seeing alot more!!

[ROB.BOB 21]

put aniseed or what ever bird pullers there are in the feed and dog in your boundrys

[deadlock 0]

Its the age old problem of pheasant wandering like the c**ts they are the only thing predictable about pheasants is that they are unpredictable over my 22 years as a keeper there are danger times for pheasants foxes killing loads is when they are poults jugging in game crops long grass etc so make sure you've found all the breeding vixens in spring on your ground and beyond as it's no good shooting foxes when the cut the corn as most of the damage has already been done to your poults and any wild birds

 

The second danger period and this one the worst is around the month of October this is when the bird mature and in truth dont really need you or your food as it not cold and theirs stubble's and still insect about so if any thing feed them less not more i whistle my birds but i would make it really difficult for them to get food out the hopper for example make them to high to reach so the have to jump or put some straw in the bottom so its partly blocked, thing like that or even feed them f**k all i guarantee you will hold them better than feeding them loads they will simple look for food local on the farm rather than get a full crop in the morning and then wander a few MILES

[comanche 2,799]

It all,depends on your,land,disturbance ,suitable cover and of course the way you actually behave on Shoot days . Are you very quiet when getting into position on the pegs ?. Do you have a good straight beating line with no rogue dogs ? Do you put Stops out ? Are the walking Guns (and I'm guessing that with 14 in the syndicate you ave a few of them ) concentrating on putting birds up or are they looking for shots all the time ?

Are you covering the ground in a sort of surrounding movement ,starting with the boundary woods and working inwards so that the early shooting sends birds scurrying toward the centre of the Shoot ? Or are you starting in the centre which means that birds may start moving outwards and over the boundaries as soon as they hear shots or human voices from the first drive of the day ?.

Think of the Shoot as a giant pinball table both on Shoot days and if you are using hoppers for feeding .Position hoppers at every ride or hedge junction and at the corners of coverts and in sheltered clearings deep in the woods so the birds literally "bounce" from feeder to feeder with no need to wander .

You might do better but a realistic bag for the season to aim for would be about a third of the birds released bearing in mind that some will have been predated or wandered off and of course some will sit tight ,run ,fly too low or even be missed !

Good luck.

Edited December 13, 2009 by comanche

[markyboy 0]

this shoot blakloks is on about use to be a commercial shoot that belongs to lord annandale,but we now rent it off him to run our own shoot. its 2000 acres and could quite easily hold a few thousand birds and in the past probably has with keepers working.

this is our first year,but the shoot has been running for 6 years and we are suppose to be back to basics as last year was a disaster. this year we put 300 in one pen,200 in another pen and 100 in the last pen. all the pens sit in the middle of the shoot with neighbouring woods that we class as main drives that havnt had birds in them,the plan was to feed these woods keep the hoppers topped up in the hope we would pull birds from the middle part of the shoot. but im affraid to say hasnt worked.

parts of the shoot have been run dry of feed and nobody been up to feed the hoppers,there is no game cover and a shit load of fallow dear that attack our hoppers even though they are fenced in are factors that have ruined it this year aswell as the fact that if you want to shoot birds out of your main drives surely you have got to put birds in pens of your main drives???? you cant rely on pulling birds from the middle part of the shoot can you??

now i just spoke to a guy that had a shoot day on fri they only put 800 birds down an reared duck and they shot 60 by lunchtime and that was there day as it was only a 60 bird day, now they only have 200 more birds than us and are shooting good numbers,surely we must be doing somthing wrong????

we dont put stops in,half the guns hardly ever turn up and some of the dogs are the wildest ive ever seen.

Edited December 13, 2009 by markyboy

[comanche 2,799]

this shoot blakloks is on about use to be a commercial shoot that belongs to lord annandale,but we now rent it off him to run our own shoot. its 2000 acres and could quite easily hold a few thousand birds and in the past probably has with keepers working.

this is our first year,but the shoot has been running for 6 years and we are suppose to be back to basics as last year was a disaster. this year we put 300 in one pen,200 in another pen and 100 in the last pen. all the pens sit in the middle of the shoot with neighbouring woods that we class as main drives that havnt had birds in them,the plan was to feed these woods keep the hoppers topped up in the hope we would pull birds from the middle part of the shoot. but im affraid to say hasnt worked.

parts of the shoot have been run dry of feed and nobody been up to feed the hoppers,there is no game cover and a shit load of fallow dear that attack our hoppers even though they are fenced in are factors that have ruined it this year aswell as the fact that if you want to shoot birds out of your main drives surely you have got to put birds in pens of your main drives???? you cant rely on pulling birds from the middle part of the shoot can you??

now i just spoke to a guy that had a shoot day on fri they only put 800 birds down an reared duck and they shot 60 by lunchtime and that was there day as it was only a 60 bird day, now they only have 200 more birds than us and are shooting good numbers,surely we must be doing somthing wrong????

we dont put stops in,half the guns hardly ever turn up and some of the dogs are the wildest ive ever seen.

Sounds as if you already know where improvements can be made and are not afraid of admitting mistakes which is where you score over those who only talk about the best days they have which can give amateur keepers unrealistic expectations .Any shoot with reared duck can usually bump up the bag pretty quickly.

 

Your Shoot is quite big and could easily swallow-up the few hundred birds you've released but it's not worth increasing numbers next year until you have the feeding sorted and got a better feel for the way drives work or should be working .

Try using hoppers to lead the birds where you want them . Five little hoppers 50 yds apart leading toward a main hopper in a central position will always score over a single big feed dump.Cover, good feeding and lack of disturbance are important and Shoot days need planning a bit like military exercises rather tha Wild West roundups .

Good luck and enjoy every bird rather than feel dissapointed if the bags are a bit smaller than expecteed

[markyboy 0]

well there is talk of putting 1000 down next year with the shoot captain on early retirement will be up there most days looking after the shoot,but as you say 2000 acres will just swallow birds. and with other shoots surrounding us its easy to have them wonder? would anybody advise putting a mixture of ringneck,melanistic and blacknecks to see which birds hold better????

there is alot of the shoot that we never even touch as we dont put hoppers down, so the birds in my opinion will just keep on wondering over our boundries to the bordering shoot and find there hoppers,but as somebody said during earlty season there is to much naturall food for them you cant really do much about it??

do the pheasants you put in the the pens as poults class that area as home when they go back to roost? so if you dont dog back they end up getting lost?? this shoot has so much potential and was a sucsessful commercial shoot in years gone by,but cant help thinking at the back of my mind its just not being done correctly with sydicate members who dont help out but will happily turn up on a shoot day expecting to shoot birds it dosent half piss you off.

[comanche 2,799]

well there is talk of putting 1000 down next year with the shoot captain on early retirement will be up there most days looking after the shoot,but as you say 2000 acres will just swallow birds. and with other shoots surrounding us its easy to have them wonder? would anybody advise putting a mixture of ringneck,melanistic and blacknecks to see which birds hold better????

there is alot of the shoot that we never even touch as we dont put hoppers down, so the birds in my opinion will just keep on wondering over our boundries to the bordering shoot and find there hoppers,but as somebody said during earlty season there is to much naturall food for them you cant really do much about it??

do the pheasants you put in the the pens as poults class that area as home when they go back to roost? so if you dont dog back they end up getting lost?? this shoot has so much potential and was a sucsessful commercial shoot in years gone by,but cant help thinking at the back of my mind its just not being done correctly with sydicate members who dont help out but will happily turn up on a shoot day expecting to shoot birds it dosent half piss you off.

You'll be on a winner if the Shoot captain can put in the time next year as if he is up there reguarly he will know which hoppers are going down and where the birds are and can adjust the feeding pattern to suit and maybe spot where birds are leaking away .

As for birds moving into areas you don't feed or shoot over .There is nothing stopping you driving these areas inwards towards the main Shoot. It might involve a lot of walking but it's worth doing just to see what turns up . The usual thing would be to gently "blank-in" these spare drives toward a main Drive in a controlled way (dogs at heel !),just tapping sticks ,no yelling or daft noises. The idea being to move birds ahead on the ground . Remember, a pheasant is said to be able to hear a normal human voice a quarter of a mile away and may be long gone before you get anywhere near it or it may sit tight. If a bird gets up and flies away from the main shoot then it might provide a shot but otherwise leave anything going foreward alone. If there are neighbouring Shoots there is often a bit of give n take as far as wandering birds go and a lot of outlying woods often provide a bit of bonus sport on those days when only a few Guns have turned up and only the really keen members are there who don't mind a bit of experimentation .

One idea that often works with syndicate members that don't turn up to work parties is to get the Guns to pay £10 or £20 every time they don't do a work party. This stops bad feeling as the non workers don't feel guilty as they have paid a bit more and the workers can use the money to pay for a petrol costs or something .

It's a pity you can't speak to one of the Commercial Keepers who once worked there or even get on good terms with one of your neighbouring Keepers for advice .

AS for the birds wandering because there's too much natural food so there's nothing you can do about it !!!! That does'nt mean you must give -up. The berries and acorns won't last forever ! Make some light, portable hoppers and don't be afraid to move them about until you get a reaction .A hopper or two in outlying woods will not lure your birds away from the main drives but they might stop any wanderers from straying further .It might seem a lot but allow at least one feeding hopper to every 25 birds so that there really is food round every corner and territorial squabbles are minimised .

The very best of luck !

Edited December 15, 2009 by comanche

[markyboy 0]

thanks very much for your time,some very interesting stuff on here that i will come to good use.

 

cheers

[Blakloks 5]

Alot of people dont like the hard walking through the felled areas ill include marky boy in that aswell bad turn outs dont seem to be helping and a lack of dogs aswell i usually go up every 2nd friday and check the hoppers and put some feeding out but the deer sometimes force the wire up and get to the spring as some of the hoppers that we fence in dont have wood along the bottom to stop this so as a result im left to just jam sticks and logs in to prevent this. Any more tips will be more than welcome guys and thanks for sharing the knowledge with us young upstarts

[thurso jack 3]

try having the hoppers empty the week of the shoot and hand feed the birds around the areas you want them to hold, this stops them coming in and gotrging on food and then leaving again, we have had very similar results to you on our little shoot, we tried the above last weekend and doubled our previous bag?

[thurso jack 3]

forgot to add, dont feed them a day or two before shoot day, get them hungry and looking for the food where it normally is

[Blakloks 5]

well i went up feeding this afternoon and found alot of hoppers hammered by deer we have a large fallow deer population around where we are and they really do cause alot of problems for us i think this is a factor because the hoppers could have been lying empty for a couple of days till someone gets up there