OX HEART

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

eskimoes ..... these folks eat the the veg from the inside of ranedeer.

 

 

Oh. ffs! :sick: That just made me So glad I'm not an Eskimo! (No wonder they all do drugs and get pissed as hand carts!)

[Rainmaker 7]

Fancy words or not, fact is fact. You say you believe you're right. What makes you believe this? Have you observed wild wolves? Tracked and recorded their activities for a couple of decades? Seen a wild one at all, ever??

 

If not, what are you basing this belief on? Seriously, that's an important question.

 

What I stated was NOT based simply on one man's studies (Dr Mech's), but rather on a HUGE body of evidence. Mech was simply a quick one to quote and he HAS based it all on decades of actual in the wild research.

 

I'm sorry my friend, but it's laughable to introduce the diet of eskimo's (they're actually called Inuits) and pygmies! They are human beings, and omnivores - not dogs. We're talking about dogs here.

 

I wouldn't join in a discussion about ferret nutrition by telling you what my rabbit eats, would I?

 

People are people, whether pygmy, Inuit or Western/Asian. Dogs are dogs. Dogs are, belive it or not, scientifically classified (check out the Smithsonian if you don't believe me) as CARNIVORES. They belong to the carnivora. They eat carcases. Wolves don't dig up carrots, eat maize or peas during the course of normal feeding!

 

No fancy words required, just some bloody proof! I've been asking for it for two pages now, and yet STILL only "my opinion" and "my belief" crops up.

 

You certainly ARE entitled to that belief, AND your opinion. Thing is that's a long way from fact - especially when you can't then back it up with something concrete. I've provided plenty of evidence here and could provide plenty more...

 

Anything constructive to add?

[Guest moomin300uk]

Three cheers for Rainmakerkennels

[targa 5]

What proof do you need more!!!??? Almost a dozen people here talk about the spontaniuos reaction of their dogs, when they get the chance they eat veg's! Is it so hard to believe that wolve's eat berrie's, nuts, mushroom's???? And when the ingredient list on a sac of dogfood says what it says..

This is a discussion without end, a yes no game!! Or do you want us to believe that you'r the grandson of Charles Darwin himself! be serious mate!:11:

[Rainmaker 7]

What proof do you need more!!!??? Almost a dozen people here talk about the spontaniuos reaction of their dogs, when they get the chance they eat veg's! Is it so hard to believe that wolve's eat berrie's, nuts, mushroom's???? And when the ingredient list on a sac of dogfood says what it says..

This is a discussion without end, a yes no game!! Or do you want us to believe that you'r the grandson of Charles Darwin himself! be serious mate!:11:

 

One of my dogs once had a "spontaneous reaction" and gobbled down a baby's nappy (unused!)... Gee, what more proof do you need that they should have a least two nappies a day in their diet?

 

It's not hard at all to believe that a wild wolf will scavenge on any available food (or non food) item when very hungry. Wolves eat very sporadically, and do not turn to eating crud (berries, rubbish) until literally starving. I've yet to see a wolf turn up his nose at bringing down an ungulate because he was too full after eating some bananas and blueberries

 

Like I said before, are you for real about commercially manufactured dog food ingredient lists? Out of interest how old are you? The whole point is that commercial dog "food" is a hash of boiled up industrial waste designed to make PROFIT for those involved. The fact that commercial dog food creates sickness and serious disease, and further lines vets pockets, who then recommend a "special" (twice as expensive) kind of commercially manufactured crap) simply spirals the thing into a viscious circle.

 

Just because they DO add corn, sugar beet and bran to dry food, doesn't mean it should be there. This is the millionth time it's been posted about on here, and should you be arsed to read around a bit and buy (or even borrow) some books, you'd see for yourself.

 

Dry food and canned food KILLS ANIMALS. Don't believe ME? Have a read of some pet food manufacturer's own web sites. The part where they tell you that over % of pets fed dry food NEED oral surgery to remedy periodontal disease which is present at a surgically and clinically significant level. Periodontal disease which KILLS those it infects.

 

They freely admit to this. Yet the same people who admit their food kills your pets, you trust about nutrition because "if dogs shouldn't eat corn byproducts and beet, they wouldn't have it in there".

 

Yeah, ok. Go for it mate, stick with what you're doing.

 

This is NOT an "endless" debate or yes and no. Quoting a commercial pet food label is NOT proof of omnivority, nor is it constructively rebutting my claims. My five year old knows better than that :whistle:

 

Thing is, I'm not saying I know it all - never have, never will. But when the gauntlet of constructive academic debate is thrown down the usual response involves quoting studies, introducing evidence etc. Not quoting the very people who's produce kills millions of pets a year (fact - they even admit it).

 

What's the point of continuing this topic if you're not willing to add constructively to it? You metioned dry food labels several posts ago, and have introduced nothing new since

[targa 5]

I never said that "commercial " food is better then meat only, I just want to explain that its more balanced becouse of all the ingredients, including veg's. Its possible that I'm a litlle dumb on dog nutricion, got dogs all of my life, as long as I remember. My dad had a kennel with sometime's 75 terriers, he tried a lot of food in his live, including meat only (chicken, duck and turkey carcasses from a local poulterer, and still born cows and sheep), they become very shiny coats and very racy from that diet,( 2 or 3 months) but not healthy on a long term, ( start to have coat problems, stinkie breath, diarhee now and then, even one wich spontanious broke a leg??) untill he mixed it with rice, ground maize, and coocked carots (on advice of our Vet)

after a while he had a balanced and mixed food, he give this for many years, untill the commercial food made feeding easyer and cheaper. then he started to feed them 50/ 50 home made and commercial.

In all those years no Vet came for a sic dog, just for their jags.

I never give canned food, becouse its dirt, and I now that commercial food ingredients are not first class steacks and veggie's! What I give now?(nearly) commercial food 50% green tripe 35%, and coocked rice 15%. give this for years without problems, and they look and are very healthy, muscled, and have high energie all day long.

[ROZ 0]

Targa why are you feeding cooked rice.Is your dog a sumo wrestler.

Rainmaker you've put some good info on this thread keep it up.

[Guest BLUE BULL]

Rainmaker you've put some good info on this thread keep it up.

 

Yep i would agree with that, Nice one lads This and the barf thread provided excellent reading for GENUINE dog men, Ive learnt alot on this forum in such little time, however theres no point in trying to educate some people :whistle:

 

 

ATB

Blue bull

[Guest moomin300uk]

Rainmaker you've put some good info on this thread keep it up.

 

Yep i would agree with that, Nice one lads This and the barf thread provided excellent reading for GENUINE dog men, Ive learnt alot on this forum in such little time, however theres no point in trying to educate some people :whistle:

 

 

ATB

Blue bull

 

true to true

[Fletcher 0]

My dogs are getting Ox heart tonight, 3 quid from the butcher, excellent lump of meat, fancy it for me self. :whistle:

[Stabs 2]

I must admit I don't feed veggies very much but when I do it's usually a few carrots for their anti-carcinogen properties. The dogs do eat a lot of fruit though but that's all from them grazing the orchards round my home. They also strip my red and white currant bushes and will eat my tomatoes from the plants if I don't close the greenhouse door. Tomatoes are a good source of potassium and there's been plenty of coursing lads feed toms to their dogs in much the same way you see a tennis player eating bananas. They seem to get what they want this way so I'll carry on.

[Mac 30]

I admire anyone that has the interest to educate themselves through choice and not necessity. There have been a few very interesting posts on this feeding debate, i have picked up some tips. Would i be right in saying that the proof is in the pudding so to speak? If the dog(s) are looking in tip top condition and full of vitality, then the fuel given is that of top correct quality?. Something similar that springs to mind is a post on the smoochers board from another canine diet fanatic (Socks). Posted some great information on feeding methods and what to feed. Within his posting he posted pictures of his greyhound in what i can only say first class condition. It was obvious he knew what he was talking about, as he could support his methods with a picture of his dog(s). Would it be possible to see the dog(s) that you have, so i/we can "paint a picture" of how knowledge put in to practice shines through, just like Socks did on his diet thread on smoochers. I will pose that question to you lee if you don’t mind. If for some reason you don’t want to post pic's on board. The PM function will be fine. :thumbs-up:

[Rainmaker 7]

I admire anyone that has the interest to educate themselves through choice and not necessity. There have been a few very interesting posts on this feeding debate, i have picked up some tips. Would i be right in saying that the proof is in the pudding so to speak? If the dog(s) are looking in tip top condition and full of vitality, then the fuel given is that of top correct quality?. Something similar that springs to mind is a post on the smoochers board from another canine diet fanatic (Socks). Posted some great information on feeding methods and what to feed. Within his posting he posted pictures of his greyhound in what i can only say first class condition. It was obvious he knew what he was talking about, as he could support his methods with a picture of his dog(s). Would it be possible to see the dog(s) that you have, so i/we can "paint a picture" of how knowledge put in to practice shines through, just like Socks did on his diet thread on smoochers. I will pose that question to you lee if you don’t mind. If for some reason you don’t want to post pic's on board. The PM function will be fine. :thumbs-up:

 

There are some old pics (raw fed still) on my site (see below) if you like. Beware though that it's not just external appearences. The most important indicator of diet related health is in the mouth itself. Gingival health and appearence, periodontal pockets present or not?, tartar and biofilm creeping intra-dentally?, breath smell?, periodontal disease present sub-gingivally?

 

These could all be present in a dog that looks A1 on the outside, and you won't know you've poisoned the dogs heart valves, kidneys and liver until it's too late = early death. Prevention is better than cure for sure.

 

As I said the whole veg or no veg debate is not a HUGE factor provided its in context of a natural (carcases/RMBs etc) diet. It's more an issue for me personally when people are calling them ESSENTIAL and not backing up. Ditto those classing dogs as omnivores (as opposed to carnivores) and saying things like they eat stomach contents in the wild etc etc. No need to repeat myself further.

 

Nice chatting.

 

Lee

[Mac 30]

There are some old pics (raw fed still) on my site (see below) if you like. Beware though that it's not just external appearences. The most important indicator of diet related health is in the mouth itself. Gingival health and appearence, periodontal pockets present or not?, tartar and biofilm creeping intra-dentally?, breath smell?, periodontal disease present sub-gingivally?

 

Answers my question, thank you.

 

These could all be present in a dog that looks A1 on the outside, and you won't know you've poisoned the dogs heart valves, kidneys and liver until it's too late = early death. Prevention is better than cure for sure.

 

Very interesting.

 

As I said the whole veg or no veg debate is not a HUGE factor provided its in context of a natural (carcases/RMBs etc) diet. It's more an issue for me personally when people are calling them ESSENTIAL and not backing up. Ditto those classing dogs as omnivores (as opposed to carnivores) and saying things like they eat stomach contents in the wild etc etc. No need to repeat myself further.

Nice chatting.

 

Lee

 

No need to repeat yourself at all mate, my question didn't involve "veggies".

 

Nice chatting to you also.

[Rainmaker 7]

No need to repeat yourself at all mate, my question didn't involve "veggies".

 

Nice chatting to you also.

 

Sorry mate, didn't mean that how it sounded. I'm on smoochers as well and know Socks (sound guy), he's a veggie feeder iirc. When you said HIS dog looked good and you wanted to see mine, I thought you were after a veggie versus no veggies comparison. No biggie either way, sorry for any misunderstanding mate