Mr_Logic 5 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 You know, I wasn't going to bother running up a 55gr load, but I think I will now... Take me a little time to get the components sorted out but once I have, we shall see! the 243 most certainly does do 4000fps - go on Hodgon's website, search under 243 and 55 grain bullet weight. Now, I agree that generally you don't get published velocities, . I have already given the 55 grain data your refer too John So you have, my mistake. Apologies. Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) So you have, my mistake. Apologies. Apology accepted and BTW I have the components here. John Edited August 22, 2009 by HUnter_zero Link to post
RicW 67 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 You know, I wasn't going to bother running up a 55gr load, but I think I will now... And Ric - in terms of deer loads, the 243 will stabilize a 100gr SP anyway, with a 1:10 twist (which is the norm for 243). You only really need a faster twist for VLD bullets, which are longer, or for anything over 100gr. 243 does shoot a lighter bullet better, I have found with a couple of rifles and info from others anyway, but it does shoot a 100gr just about acceptably. Mr L - Like I said - I am quite prepared to admit that I'm a bit of an armchair expert. You say 1-in-10? I accept that as the view of someone who has, as they say, been there, done that. And hey - if it ain't broke don't fix it! Now 40 years back you and me with my .303 sniperised Lee-Enfield, heavy starred barrel, blueprinted action, Parker-Hale peep sights, 12" square targets . . .at 300 yards . . . Bugger the theory I'd have outshot ya! ATB Ric Link to post
RicW 67 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 :thumbs-up: ive been offerd the chance to control some fallow deer so what would you recomend as the best caliber firearms officer says a can get prettymuch what ever a want looking for summit cheap to reload an buy prefer something not to thumpy i normally shoot with a 22 250 but thats not legal o an a done this on ma phone couldnt find full stops lol cheers stuart Remember boy`s what the initial post was about. For all the one`s that are lost in there own little world its the text above,lol. So no need for pasting the reloading charts pish in an attempt at trying to convince folk that its a more complex than what it actualy is :thumbs-up: Sorry Shotgun we're hijacking your thread. Remington or Sako in 243 will do the biz. Keep your 22-250 as a fox gun. If you're out with the 243 and you get a shot at a fox then it's goodnight Charlie. ATB, Ric the armchair man Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 It comes from an online database of loads that individuals have made, tested and used. Before you say they could be just saying that, well yes they could, I just used that as an example of a published load. What is not possibly fiction is me watching a chronograph when a close friend puts his .243 through it, 4012 fps. I amazes me that some online shooters either always shoot 1/8th" groups or 200 yard neck shots all of the time My advice is not to believe all you read about how rifles and load preform, unless from a certifiable and genuine source. What load was your mate using? (powder / bullet / primer / case) I can then run the info in quick load. How many rounds did he chronograph? Did all the round cross over 4000 fps? What were the final groups and how many rounds were shot to achieve the best group? To look at it another way, I can produce a real hot load that will run a 55 grain bullet through a 1 in 12 twist, the bullet might hit 4000 fps, I could load it hotter and run it to 4100 fps and even further but it would not be safe and would not be accurate. The .243" will run at around 3800 fps and in fact there are very few rounds that will run at 4000 fps + consistently. John Apologies, but I can't see where the top two sentences come into this question, unless it is in relation to the rest of the thread, if so, then no worries From what I can remember he was using Varget with Remington Match Primers(I don't remember the degree), Lapua brass and a 55gr Nosler, again, I don't recall the exact bullet, this was 18 months back. If you really want to know I can try and find out for you He shot two five shot groups and accuracy was less than great, not what I would consider a decent round at all, out of the 10 rounds I believe three dropped under 4000fps, (around 3960fps is ringing a bell) and the others were just over the 4000 fps, such as the example I gave you above which sticks in my mind. 4000fps is the so called "magical" figure that calibres such as the .17 Rem were designed to reach and still be able to shoot, but as you say, in many calibres its not worth the powder trying to get them shoot to any degree of accuracy. SS P.S I'll try not to hi-jack this thread anymore. Link to post
shotgun 0 Posted August 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Fluck me wish id never asked now ,still not decided but i do know its mostly going to be hinds im shooting ,mostly from high seats im now turning more towards the 243,as the gun wont be getting used week in week out ,cheap to buy ,reload for ,but i dunno ,i do know im not intrested in all the ballistic threads,just need something that will put a bullet in an inch at 100 /150 yards if i do my part,,cheers lads o an hijackaway its all intresting reading ,stuart.. Link to post
dicehorn 38 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Fluck me wish id never asked now ,still not decided but i do know its mostly going to be hinds im shooting ,mostly from high seats im now turning more towards the 243,as the gun wont be getting used week in week out ,cheap to buy ,reload for ,but i dunno ,i do know im not intrested in all the ballistic threads,just need something that will put a bullet in an inch at 100 /150 yards if i do my part,,cheers lads o an hijackaway its all intresting reading ,stuart.. Shotgun, not that I wish to come in at the last minute and try and change your mind. But you have read on this thread about people like Mr Logic who use 243 and go onto say that they are competent at taking neck shots at deer and even brag about shooting a 17 pointer at 200 yards neck shot - whats a 17 pointer got to do with it? Lets face it if it were legal your 22.250 would floor the beast. I regularly use my 22.250 on farmed red deer and a 17 pointer would be considered a midget. The problem with the 243 using the heavier bullets (95 gr upwards) is that many 243 will not stabilize them because of the different twist rates that 243 have. This puts 243 users in a corner having to use lighter bullets - the smaller the bullets generally equals more velocity which in turns equals more meat damage. Therefore 243 users have if they want little carcass damage to be forced into head/neck shots. Watch any of our deer when out feeding and watch the bits that waggle about while the body stays more of less still. Perhaps the head/neck shooters don't care if the bullet takes off the lower jaw or clips the wind pipe. At least with a heavier calibre you are going to have a choice on the deer's anatomy. I used to take out clients and when one presented himself with a jelly maker (243) I always told them that anything they shot they would have to pay for and taken back with them. Not that I suggest you get one, but I have used a 6.5 for the last 12 years also my friend a pro stalker. Ballistics are I am sorry to say important in stalking - the 243 at average 3200 fps and the 6.5 and 308 at ave of 2750 fps make a world of difference on the carcass. This is not armchair writing - I shoot more red than most on this forum and can vouch for the 6.5 capability of shooting foxes past 300 yds. Go to any large gun shop and look at their range of second hand 243s and 6.5s - bet you will find more 243s than 6.5 - people tend once owning one to settle for the 6.5. Bear in mind also that a famous african hunter called Bell shot thousands of elephants with guess what? yup the 6.5 Just my 2d worth Peter Link to post
Mr_Logic 5 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 But you have read on this thread about people like Mr Logic who use 243 and go onto say that they are competent at taking neck shots at deer and even brag about shooting a 17 pointer at 200 yards neck shot Do me a favour please mate? Don't misquote me? I've said that I shoot ROE deer with a 243, and I use a neck shot to preserve the meat and allow me to use a fox type bullet as it saves me making two loads and re-zeroing. I've NOT said anything about a 17-pointer or anything like that. You may not have been trying to misquote me but please can you clarify this for the benefit of anyone else reading? In terms of a fallow, which this thread is about, a 243 will definitely work, and again, that's all I've said. I've also said there are plenty of other calibres... Link to post
dicehorn 38 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 But you have read on this thread about people like Mr Logic who use 243 and go onto say that they are competent at taking neck shots at deer and even brag about shooting a 17 pointer at 200 yards neck shot Do me a favour please mate? Don't misquote me? Yes apologise - meant Snap Shot although the rest did actually apply to you and others who have to take head shots as a fait a comple. Link to post
SNAP SHOT 194 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 But you have read on this thread about people like Mr Logic who use 243 and go onto say that they are competent at taking neck shots at deer and even brag about shooting a 17 pointer at 200 yards neck shot Do me a favour please mate? Don't misquote me? Yes apologise - meant Snap Shot although the rest did actually apply to you and others who have to take head shots as a fait a comple. mate i believe you mentioned me braging about the 17 pointer....... i never posted that topic on here ever, and i only mentioned it as someone said it wasn't sufficent for large deer..... the 1 in 10 twist in the .243 is picky, to shoot the 100g some like it some don't however you can buy a .243 with a 1 in 9 1/8 that will do it no problem..... i'm only here to share my experience and learn a little along the way..... it was stated that the calibre would not be used over 200 yards or so....... So the .243 will be an excellent choice... i've been shooting the .243 for more years than i can remember and also owned a 6.5 x 55 but due to funds being tight back then i had to give it up.... and settle for the .243 which i liked lots..... i was mearly stating that if any shooter is worth his salt the the .243 is ample for all deer and fox.... i had seen a man shoot a 30-06 at a fallow a friend of my hunting buddy.... at under 100 yards he shot it 3 times and the thing still ran off...... So mate... i'm sorry if you think i was bragging, and you may shoot loads of deer, but i've been out there too, So feel i have a valide opinion to give.... on my own experience's. As i said i'm here to share my opinion's and learn a little hopefully without someone feeling the need to argue along the way..... i'm not getting involved in a bitching session so you won't see another reply from me on this topic..... happy hunting..... Snap. Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Fluck me wish id never asked now ,still not decided but i do know its mostly going to be hinds im shooting ,mostly from high seats im now turning more towards the 243,as the gun wont be getting used week in week out ,cheap to buy ,reload for ,but i dunno ,i do know im not intrested in all the ballistic threads,just need something that will put a bullet in an inch at 100 /150 yards if i do my part,,cheers lads o an hijackaway its all intresting reading ,stuart.. Shotgun, not that I wish to come in at the last minute and try and change your mind. But you have read on this thread about people like Mr Logic who use 243 and go onto say that they are competent at taking neck shots at deer and even brag about shooting a 17 pointer at 200 yards neck shot - whats a 17 pointer got to do with it? Lets face it if it were legal your 22.250 would floor the beast. I regularly use my 22.250 on farmed red deer and a 17 pointer would be considered a midget. The problem with the 243 using the heavier bullets (95 gr upwards) is that many 243 will not stabilize them because of the different twist rates that 243 have. This puts 243 users in a corner having to use lighter bullets - the smaller the bullets generally equals more velocity which in turns equals more meat damage. Therefore 243 users have if they want little carcass damage to be forced into head/neck shots. Watch any of our deer when out feeding and watch the bits that waggle about while the body stays more of less still. Perhaps the head/neck shooters don't care if the bullet takes off the lower jaw or clips the wind pipe. At least with a heavier calibre you are going to have a choice on the deer's anatomy. I used to take out clients and when one presented himself with a jelly maker (243) I always told them that anything they shot they would have to pay for and taken back with them. Not that I suggest you get one, but I have used a 6.5 for the last 12 years also my friend a pro stalker. Ballistics are I am sorry to say important in stalking - the 243 at average 3200 fps and the 6.5 and 308 at ave of 2750 fps make a world of difference on the carcass. This is not armchair writing - I shoot more red than most on this forum and can vouch for the 6.5 capability of shooting foxes past 300 yds. Go to any large gun shop and look at their range of second hand 243s and 6.5s - bet you will find more 243s than 6.5 - people tend once owning one to settle for the 6.5. Bear in mind also that a famous african hunter called Bell shot thousands of elephants with guess what? yup the 6.5 Just my 2d worth Peter Brilliant...so the 6.5 is an elephant gun and the .243 isn't up to a Red...because it causes more meat damage... And why are there more .243 available used than 6.5...well most probably because .243 outsells 6.5 by probably 100-1 (a guess..but dramatically more .243 are sold than 6.5) May I suggest your opinion on Calibre is just that...YOUR OPINION, My .243 works for me and MANY others, FACT!!! so please don't suggest it isn't up to the job. Please also remember some of us shoot deer as pests and not on paid for stalks with some weekend warrior....so open your mind and kindly stop looking at everything deer, as paid for, with idiots behind the trigger!! Link to post
dicehorn 38 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Oh boy Deker you used to be pretty cool on this forum - perhaps ......ah well leave it at that I never said the 243 was not up to the job - my reference was to meat damage - please dont skip read what I wrote. If the 243 out sells the 6.5 it may well be to do with the fact that it is most peoples first choice for a deer calibre - but you would be surprised how many people when they really get into stalking and see the damage the 243 can do who switch to the 6.5 and 308 - that could be why there are so many 243 available - as you said 'my opinion' The more I read some posts from the knowledgeable the more I seem to come down on Fireballs theories. Link to post
HUnter_zero 58 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) If the 243 out sells the 6.5 it may well be to do with the fact that it is most peoples first choice for a deer calibre - The .243" may well out sell the 6.5 due to more professional pest controllers using the .243" as a tool for fox control. Not so long ago, we had no option to use the .243" for fox and believe me when I say that it wasn't very popular other than with Roe stalkers in the UK. I agree that the miss-guided and inexperienced will opt for the .243" as their first choice for deer with the illusion that it will be suitable for all UK deer and also for fox control but hey they soon learn and buy the right tool for the job John Edited August 23, 2009 by HUnter_zero Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Oh boy Deker you used to be pretty cool on this forum - perhaps ......ah well leave it at that I never said the 243 was not up to the job - my reference was to meat damage - please dont skip read what I wrote. Brilliant...so the 6.5 is an elephant gun and the .243 isn't up to a Red...because it causes more meat damage... If the 243 out sells the 6.5 it may well be to do with the fact that it is most peoples first choice for a deer calibre - but you would be surprised how many people when they really get into stalking and see the damage the 243 can do who switch to the 6.5 and 308 - that could be why there are so many 243 available - as you said 'my opinion' And why are there more .243 available used than 6.5...well most probably because .243 outsells 6.5 by probably 100-1 (a guess..but dramatically more .243 are sold than 6.5) May I suggest your opinion on Calibre is just that...YOUR OPINION, My .243 works for me and MANY others, FACT!!! so please don't suggest it isn't up to the job. Please also remember some of us shoot deer as pests and not on paid for stalks with some weekend warrior....so open your mind and kindly stop looking at everything deer, as paid for, with idiots behind the trigger!! The more I read some posts from the knowledgeable the more I seem to come down on Fireballs theories. Skip read..are you having a larf, Look in the mirror and read my post again in relation to what you have just said...meat damage and stalking is what I refered to. Just to make life easier for you I have repeated my entire post to answer your misguided skip reading! FFS ..its called comprehension, and stick to the point, don't wonder off with any of this personal crap! Link to post
Deker 3,450 Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 If the 243 out sells the 6.5 it may well be to do with the fact that it is most peoples first choice for a deer calibre - The .243" may well out sell the 6.5 due to more professional pest controllers using the .243" as a tool for fox control. Not so long ago, we had no option to use the .243" for fox and believe me when I say that it wasn't very popular other than with Roe stalkers in the UK. I agree that the miss-guided and inexperienced will opt for the .243" as their first choice for deer with the illusion that it will be suitable for all UK deer and also for fox control but hey they soon learn and buy the right tool for the job John The other side of the story.... I am a qualified BPCA/RSPH Pest Controller, I am a Deer mentor for Thames Valley and the Met Police and I am Secretary of a Home Office Approved fullbore club at Bisley. I have 7 FAC tools in the Cabinet (and 3 shotguns and 2 air rifles) and I use the most appropriate for each job. My experience shows me that .243 is perfectly capable on All Deer in this country so kindly do not tell me I'm "miss-guided and inexperienced" If you have an issue with the .243 then use something else, but do not preach to the world it isn't suitable or the right tool for the job because you can't stop deer with it! I most certainly can and do! Link to post
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