[Pye bred dogs]

10 hours ago, Bosun11 said:

Keep thinking about my first reply to this post and keep thinking i should of given the old dog a bit more, rather than try and be almost uninterested... I also should have give Blackmag some help with this too, as he was fighting Pye's corner alone.

As to answer the first part, Pye IMO was a great producer BUT at his best only when linings were kept tight. The two litters he produced with Otter, his litter sister, were top draw. He produced 3/4's & 5/8th's that were also very good. But Pye was put up for general stud and because of his reputation any old bollox was put under him and rightly, many didn't make much cop...

Ten a penny... Well, there were a fair few decent bull cross dogs about then i'd agree, different times. Thing is, Wigan and the surrounding towns, including Manchester (though not Liverpool) were full of decent bull greyhound bred dogs and lets face it, almost all were out of better gear that's around today and almost all were single handed dogs. So what gave the Pye dog a reputation that, at that time, got his name spread and a que to put bitches under him and a reputation both back then and still to this day, with threads like this? The answer to that is that 'if you have to ask, you'll never know'... His ability is NOT to be talked about in detail on an open forum but to use the Wigan lads words on the night as he tore his quarry to bits 'It's sick that dog'... He killed another three that night and i'd seen enough... Thing is, he could run too, that dog could catch every type of quarry put infront of him. He had pace, he had stamina (and just for the record, those that think bull blooded dogs have no wind... I'm sorry but any genuine game bred APBT trained right has stamina aplenty. A dog trained for battle, direct combat, that can last up to two hours plus MUST have stamina. Any fool can see that!)

The same ability can be said for his direct offspring, both Dee and Spike could kill quarry as good as their sire, though they did have more panche about the job! 

I remember being out with Spike, he killed the first 2 of the quarry he was slipped on, (though 'slipped' is the wrong word as he was almost never on a lead and went when told) and when i asked what he was like on rabbits, he caught and carried back his bunny like it was made of glass, with a retrieve of a gun dog and we went on catching rabbits for the rest of the night like he was made for the job! Dee was just the same, as was Ice. As where his 5/8's sons and daughters, Clogg was superb, so was the 5'/8'ths i owned called Dutchess.

The half bred called Buck i had from Dee, to another Pye half cross which went to coursing's CN, was every bit as good as his grandsire. Leggy and rock hard, he could kill his bigger quarry with ease and catch fox, hares and roe on a nights lamping. Fast enough, he caught hares daytime too. Now lets not be under any illusion i'm saying he was any sort of specialist at hares BUT he took enough in his years to prove his speed and strike for what he was, a third gen half bred) Tess was a bit more short and square but she could kill bigger quarry and foxes easily enough, decent on bunnies too, i had some geat bags from her, she could run all night!

Ox, the last line bred half cross i kept, out of Ged (out of Dee) and Tess (out of Spike to a bitch out of Otter) was the image of his grandsire, he was fast and could kill his quarry, i thought he was gonna be real special but he lost an eye in his second real season and though i kept lamping him, he could only kill critters that turned left..! Because of this he ran over the edge of a deep sided drainage ditch out lamping and though i kept him on, sadly he was never the same. There were others in the line that were excellent also.

All the dogs i seen killed like no dogs i've seen since, all dogs mentioned were natural retrievers, all had fine temperaments with both dogs and people.

Some of the dogs mentioned are in my gallery, if anyone wants to look.

As i've said, back down this thread, there are lads who still keep this line tight. Getting harder now, but the blood still exists... I've never met anyone who owned a close bred dog from this line to ever say a bad word about em and almost all whished they still had their dog.

Now, and this is the crux...

By writing all this i'm in no way saying the Pye dog or any of his line are in any way any better than any other line of bull bloods... Back when i seen and owned mine, i didn't know of any other lines of bull greyhounds in the country, the world was a different place back then! So my view of them, us just that, my view. I only know of other lines from what has been written on forums like this over the years since and from a couple of lads i know and trust (they wouldn't keep shite!)

So single handed (fox) dogs are out there, i know that and this is what i know about Pye and his line... BUT my knowlage and views are from years ago, make of that what you will...

 

Superb, honest statement, proves that you MUST keep the lines tight and not use any old bitch to a top sire.

[Wolfe dog]

Saw the dog at a show in Wales with his owner DB, dog is a monster, tall, heavy set, more like a bull x . 

Has been well tested, won matches etc, few pictures of him on FB, Calender Coursing Club page  

[Pye bred dogs]

1 hour ago, Bosun11 said:

I thought that Blackwater stuff was the Chance dog to a Tumbler or sommat like that?

The " Blackwater" stuff was Chance to Tiny, and Chance to Belle the Tumbler, i had a pup off both litters, and Chance went to only one other bitch i think. 

Make no mistake, this breeding was extremely well tested, Tiny and Chance especially, these lads were a close knit bunch all bang at it, there was also a big red dog on the crew called Cue, i had a pup off him too, very game dog sadly killed in the field in his second season. 

[Pye bred dogs]

1 minute ago, Bosun11 said:

Are we talking about Baz Gorton from Padiham..?

It sounds as though you lads up there know him , he guaranteed all his bullxs on all quarry, and in the case of Tiny and Chance he was spot on  

[Pye bred dogs]

1 hour ago, Blackmag said:

Was that b g dan 

Honestly don't know pal, the lad told me that he was an old guy in Burnley, but I think it was the same guy who used to advertise in Earth Dog Running Dog, most of the pups and dogs he had were from the Wigan, Manchester, Liverpool area, i actually spoke to him on the phone once myself. 

[Pye bred dogs]

8 hours ago, Elchapo said:

Chance only whent to 3 bitches 

Tiny 

Bell 

And ruby/jet bull whippet , 

Tiny was chance half sister wich had 1/8th saluki in her and died of heart attack 

Think awen had red dogs out of chance and his half sister Tiny wich where the saluki come from and a blue bitch out of chance to bell 

Black dog chance 

Black and white dog is ty (Tiny sister) 

Pictures posted with permission of owner 

I knew the lad from Nuneaton who owned Tiny and Chance, I had a bitch out of the Chance /Tiny litter who was killed on deer in the New Forest and i had a dog out of the Bell litter, made 32tts but was very nervey, couldn't trust him with dogs or people, Tiny and Chance came from an old boy who peddled a few dogs from Burnley as pups, Chance was the runt but they were deadly on all quarry. 

[Injuries/collisions.... does and donts]

15 minutes ago, moonlighter said:

Lamping is the number one killer of dogs.. I’ve lost 3 on the lamp. Depends where you live though and what your hunting. Dykes/hares/deer and your lucky to have a dog reach old age. 
also, more than one dog chasing can lead to accidents, either colliding with each other, or hitting obstacles on the run, as they have one eye on the other dog, as well as what’s in front. 

Spot on pal, Ive lost two and there's no worse feeling than coming back without your dog, saying that, every time you slip him there's a risk so you have to have a bit of luck on your side sometimes. 

[Green tripe]

And add some bone meal to his food, makes a big difference, cheap too. 

[English Greyhound Derby]

2 hours ago, jeemes said:

So did you watch it? or back it? was the question.

Yes mate I went last night and I backed two dogs a few weeks ago, one went out in the semis other one was Thorn Falcon at 25s.... Atmosphere was fantastic especially when the whole place sang Sweet Caroline as the finalists came out.. Fair to say the Indian restaurant did well out of us on the way back

[Fox cubs]

The pheasant..... The most overrated bird that lives...... Reared to be shot by folks who pay well to take a brace home..... I know a lad who is paid to take his JCB and bury hundreds of them each season on a shoot near me as no one wants them...... Pointless, might as well shoot a few clays. 

[Fox cubs]

1 hour ago, FOXHUNTER said:

 

FAC????....... Is that a F...... A......hole Certificate?

[Fox cubs]

45 minutes ago, Jude said:

It’s sickening, technology is one thing that’s done the fox no favours for sure with all the thermal and night vision that every shooter has nowadays. If it wasn’t for towns and built up areas there would hardly be a fox anywhere. Places I know that used to hold decent numbers are piss poor now due to the rifle brigade, most of which couldn’t walk the length of themselves. Hard going for dog lads now. 

Shooting....... The sport of people who can't condition a running dog

[Fox cubs]

2 hours ago, fireman said:

 

I love each and every one of the chaps who leave more on the ground for me to find  underground....

As a side note i have dug more than one fox that had been shot before and one poor fox was missing the top half of it's shoulders and i smelt the rot before i even broke through to it,one of the worse sights i have ever seen on any living animal...

Exactly pal, at least with the dogs you know if the job has been done or not . 

[Fox cubs]

Even more annoying is the shooters who ride round in the summer, shooting at and missing foxes then by September every fox in the area is lamp shy. 

[Deer deer and more deer]

2 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Here's a Pakistani Naseem

 

Fully deserved after that entrance..... Left alot quicker than he arrived

[Deer deer and more deer]

I saw Naz in his third pro fight on the Sugar Boy Malinga undercard in Birmingham, he fought a lad using only his one hand in the first round, did summersaults during the break then stopped him in the second when he wanted too..... Never seen anything like it before or after ever

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

1 minute ago, thefensarefarbutistillgo said:

Brindle bitch is called May she was straight out of Caulfield’s joe and was the mother to Cindy. Red bitch is Cindy and was the mother to tikka 

Both in fine condition 

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

8 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Bob is in a good few pedigrees mate but not as many as merlin eve mate  snowey foxy blondie razor romeo no bob mate  

But he is in plenty quality pedigrees bulldozer etc but they all have merlin eve and old breeding in them aswell mate

Both im running g at min have Bob in there 

Do you think a greyhound still needs putting back in the line every so often or are the coursing dog lines that established now that you would just keep breeding courser x courser? 

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

10 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

Swoops sire was merlin mate she was out of merlinxeve 

Merlinxeve= swoop

Ballyreahgan bob x Angie tepe gawra saluki =beanie a half cross

 

Beaniexswoop = cauldfields joe 

Cheers pal... You can tell I'm a bull cross man but I definitely think Bob added an immense input to the coursing dog world, his name can be found somewhere in plenty of the big names. 

I have never bought into the "any old greyhound" will do, I have been involved with greyhounds fourty years and the class animals are a different thing to the average ones. 

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

43 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

im with both of you lol but cauldfieds joe was out a swoop mate direct merlin eve how much quality come from that side alot more  than any other without a doubt and that fancy footwork was from merlin eve side aswell not a half cross 

Swoops sire was Beanie though wasn't it?, making him a grandson of Bob, apologies, yes I made it sound like Beanie sired Joe

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

7 hours ago, FUJI said:

Bob produced absolutely NOTHING when it came to racing greyhounds,so I'd be amazed if he passed ANYTHING beneficial onto his coursing pups,he could run but the dog was NOT a producer & that's a fact.

Lol.... To say he could run is a bit like saying Tesco own a corner shop.... To say he didn't produce when he sired Beanie, who then sired Caulfields Jo, then Jack etc makes Bob probably the most influential greyhound ever in coursing lines and i am sure the top coursing men can all find him in their lines..... But opinions are like arseholes we all have one.

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

1 minute ago, shaaark said:

Ah right, I was just thinking of other possible greyhounds that might've been added to the coursing lines. 

I think Bobs owner was mates with the coursing lads and let them use him...   And what a dog to use as Bob has really left his mark in the coursing world.... I know of several well known trainers back then who let some top class greyhounds have a run behind a hare for a bit of sport.... Unknown to their owners

[Well bred saluki lurcher pups]

22 hours ago, shaaark said:

Thinking about it, if speed wasn't an issue, would'nt scurlogue champ have been a better dog to put to these coursing breds, as he was a better distance dog?

As someone who travelled all over the country to watch him run, Scurlogue is the last one I would use as a sire, he was a thinker, pulled up a couple of times, no doubt he'd have passed some of that onto his pups. 

Bob broke his heart that night at Wembley, and history has shown that he passed his ability and determination onto his coursing pups 

[lurcher prices]

After reading some of the comments on here I can see how easy it is for Antis, CA, along with the short sightedness of lurcher owners to finally signal the death of the genuine working lurcher. 

All this " rather sell to non working pet homes" is completely wrong and eventually like alot of working dogs it will be bred out of them. 

Simple answer, don't breed off shite, only breed when needed, sort your mates out if required, personally I would rather PTS than deny a well bred  dog the chance to do what it's bred to do. There's a reason why the same men continually have class livestock wether its, dogs, horses, pigeons etc, they think it all out beforehand. 

[lurcher prices]

1 minute ago, dogmad riley said:

Just lined my bitch to keep a pup back for myself.  A couple are spoken for the rest are spare.

I will only be charging £200 a pup. If she has taken. 

Sire bull grey (10 year old)

Dam collie bull grey (6 year old) 

 

Nice to hear, hope it all works out for you