Deer Management courses

[SNAP SHOT 194]

Cheers ATB

Hi, I'm new to this forum, only found it today, so imagine my surprise when the first post I read is about summat I've been droning on about for years. The absolute futility of these courses.

I have hunted deer and wild boar in Germany where not only do you have to have a license for a gun (waffenbesitzkarte), but also a separate hunting license (jagdschein). In order to get a jagdschein a German citizen must undertake a course of study that would make some degree students sweat. The hunter then has to pass various exams and practical tests. None of this comes cheap and as a consequence Germany, a country with a long and world renowned hunting tradition, has less fieldsports participants than the UK. They also, along with France have a shocking safety record!

As far as I can see the various tests and qualifications serve only 2 purposes, to make fieldsports more exclusive rather than inclusive and to make money for the various associations that are meant to be supporting us.

Just to make it absolutely clear, I'm against them. However I'd be naiive to think that we are not well down the road to compulsory testing, we are, and it will be a severe blow to country sports as a whole because it won't just be stalking that requires certification, eventually it will be all country sports.

 

 

Hi,

 

I studied deer at Sparsholt College for three years, ended up with the National Diploma and the National Deer Stalking Certificate. Since then I have worked in Canada for the Fish and Wildlife Department. I'm now in the Army, based next to Bisley and teach the new recruits to shoot. However, when i recently tried to book some stalking, i was told i was not qualified or experienced enough as i did not have the DSC1. I contacted the BDS and all they said was i would have to do one of their courses. Its all a money thing.

 

i agree lads.

 

Books will only learn you so much in my opinion, hands on practical experience far outweighs a sheet of paper anyday.....

 

As far as the HCAP, If you have enough money you WILL pass, i saw a very rich chap shoot, and fail and be allowed to take it again for a fee,

 

he forked out the money until the shots were within a pass......

 

i wouldn't let this man out with a gat gun never mind a high power centrefire.....

 

Yes we call all learn something from books but true knowledge is handed from one to the other by way of practical experience.....

 

Snap.

[2434me 13]

5: All HCAP candidates are required to complete HCAP Assessment within 180 days of date of their MCQ, i.e. all candidates must pass their Range Test within 180 days of sitting their first attempt at the MCQ. Candidates may repeat the MCQ once only and/or the Range Test once only at the discounted Repeat Fee of €50.00.

 

Should any candidate need to repeat the MCQ or the Range Test more than once, they may do so only subject to payment of the full HCAP Fee of €100.00.

 

Failed MCQ or Range Test candidates may repeat the relevant stage of the certifying test as often as they wish and as often as administrative arrangements allow, within the 180 day timeframe but if certification is not achieved within that time, candidates must then recommence the process from the beginning, including re-sitting a current MCQ even where they may have previously passed the MCQ.

 

 

Right or wrong ? The rules are the same for everyone .

RE-sits are an expensive way of practising if you ask me !

[tommydeer 2]

It doesnt matter what you do in your spare time whether its Stalking ,golf or crochet !!!

 

There will always be someone with more money than you,who can pay for things they want .

 

Money has SOD ALL! to do with the reasoning behind the DSC scheme.

 

David Beckam has the same driving license as you do ,but that doesnt make him a better driver !!!!

Now look at the cars he can buy and you cant .

 

MONEY = Pointless arguement

 

The majority of DSC holders are NOT that rich bloke .That rich bloke is a smokescreen to stand on and winge from !

 

Its Not Fair !!! Its Not Fair !! BULLOCKS ! Thats life ,Get on with it !!

 

Id argue that money has got plenty to do with it, in fact id argue that unfortunately money has got a lot to do with most things in life.

 

You can rant all day, but at the end of the day...you cant tell me that DSC whatever level, isnt a money making scheme. Go and look in your shooting times magazine and look at all the ads "Accredited witness stalking available".

 

There are many arguments, im not saying your right, im not saying your wrong, what i am saying is....chill out!

[osimons89 0]

i passed my DSC1 first time no problems had a farm i worked on set up for stalking loaded with roe munties and a few fallow the farmers responce was yer what ever im not worryed dont do that much damage do they. was planing to get my FAC no problems there loads of land and refrances. then moved to belgium for work and havent even looked at a deer since. i think it is not what you can do on paper any one can read a book and do a test. its what you can do with your hands what your really know and understand that matters in are lines of work

[Mr Adventure 0]

I have just done a DSC1 and failed it . I failed on deer ecology questions the pass was 40 I got 39 (what a bummer). Anyway thats not my point , I know that experience is everything when it comes to stalking, but of the 6 on the DCS1 no one passed.

Out of the 6 only two passed the shooting test(I was one that passed). I was taken back that 3 so called gillie's could not get their rifle's to group 3 round's in a 4" target at 100m they got 3 trys each to do this. Now these guy had shot hundreds of beasts between them.

So it kind of blew the experiance hunter thing out the door for me.

I realise that there is more to the stalk than just the shooting but I think its quite a vital part.

I do think some sort of qualification is required to hunt and shoot deer.

I felt that the DSC1 taught me alot in 2days. I have had a open FAC for 25years plus. I found it very informative and worth doing.

 

Just my thoughts

 

I get to resit the part I failed in June .

Edited March 15, 2009 by Mr Adventure

[markbivvy 6]

I have just done a DSC1 and failed it . I failed on deer ecology questions the pass was 40 I got 39 (what a bummer). Anyway thats not my point , I know that experience is everything when it comes to stalking, but of the 6 on the DCS1 no one passed.

Out of the 6 only two passed the shooting test(I was one that passed). I was taken back that 3 so called gillie's could not get their rifle's to group 3 round's in a 4" target at 100m they got 3 trys each to do this. Now these guy had shot hundreds of beasts between them.

So it kind of blew the experiance hunter thing out the door for me.

I realise that there is more to the stalk than just the shooting but I think its quite a vital part.

I do think some sort of qualification is required to hunt and shoot deer.

I felt that the DSC1 taught me alot in 2days. I have had a open FAC for 25years plus. I found it very informative and worth doing.

 

Just my thoughts

 

I get to resit the part I failed in June .

 

thats why most of them go for chest shots, lot bigger target.

[2434me 13]

You can rant all day, but at the end of the day...you cant tell me that DSC whatever level, isnt a money making scheme. Go and look in your shooting times magazine and look at all the ads "Accredited witness stalking available".

 

 

The only difference between going on a stalking outing and being witnessed on a stalking outing ,is the filling in of the portfolio.WHICH SHOULD NOT BE CHARGED FOR !!!!!!

 

If you want to be witnessed then you can

If you dont want to be then you wont ,

But it will still cost the same for each outing because they are a commercial stalking ground and thats why they employ a stalker .

 

If there was no DSC ,they would still have to advertise their stalking to make a living .

 

Just avoid the chancers who try and charge for filling in your portfolio.

They are the ones who are F&&ing up the system

Ask around and find some decent guys

 

 

Good luck with your re-sit !

Edited March 15, 2009 by 2434me

[sheepworrier 1]

I agree with most of the comments here, but i would like to do the course dsc 1 but can't be bothered with the travelling side. where in south wales do they do these courses ?

[2434me 13]

Inaugural deer course in Wales

3 December 2008

 

Another first for BASC Wales, this time in March, was a DSC level 1 deer stalking course, held in Llanfynydd, Carmarthenshire. Members from across Wales and from as far afield as London took part in the four-day course presented by BASC training officer, Nick Lane. Of those taking part, only one has to retake his theory paper, meaning that the course produced a very high standard of pass rate. Pictured (left) are the course participants - the first DSC level 1 stalkers to benefit from training in Wales.

 

A second course is planned for 10-13 March 2009. To book a place contact Meurig Rees on 01239 851631 or send him an email.

 

Its too late for this one ,but it would be a good idea to get in touch with the guy at the bottom ,Meurig Rees.

 

Good luck .

[Night Hunter 109]

i thought about doing the course,but cant help thinking that the people who are trying to make it compulsory are only doing so for finacial gain,its just another certificate to add to the pile,what next a certificate to shoot pigeons another for foxes and the list goes on and on

 

why not include a questionaire with the aplication for firearms to be used for stalking where you have to do research and answer questions before it is granted to prove competancy instead of doing expensive courses that are not worth the paper they are written on ....

 

my friend is a butcher and had to do a recognised four year apprenticeship to be deemed competant at meat handling etc but there is a one day course available that i can do for £190 and then i can put meat into the human food chain come on guys its not rocket science were being fleeced its certifacates for cash next they will be selling them on ebay........

 

i think its time we said no...!

[markbivvy 6]

I keep hearing about the big change to come in 2010,

all people shooting will come under the EU rules regarding certificates for every thing.

this includes a safety course before you can have a shotgun cert.

And as we are the only country left that allows night shooting, that could be a thing of the past , unless you are a dsc 1,2,3,4,5 holder of a night shooting permit,

or doing the pest control night shooting classes.

[2434me 13]

Nobody has put up any good reasons against the system so far ????

 

Some guys are complaining , but saying nothing constructive .IE, money! rich blokes ! etc etc

 

The other guys are just getting on with it and doing the course so its out of the way.

 

The courses are actually getting more popular each month,which means people can see the benefits and the reasons for doing it .

 

You have to make your own mind up which way you are going and what you are going to do .

Research it yourself !

[tommydeer 2]

Nobody has put up any good reasons against the system so far ????

 

Some guys are complaining , but saying nothing constructive .IE, money! rich blokes ! etc etc

 

The other guys are just getting on with it and doing the course so its out of the way.

 

The courses are actually getting more popular each month,which means people can see the benefits and the reasons for doing it .

 

You have to make your own mind up which way you are going and what you are going to do .

Research it yourself !

 

I think its obvious which way your going! Like ive said throughout the post, its OPINION, nobody is right, nobody is wrong.

 

There are alyways pros, and always cons. Not just money, rich blokes etc (these are factors, not reasons)I think germany have it spot on regarding the length of their courses, it means you really are trained not just taught!

 

Now i'll repeat myself. People complain about deer populations exploding. So theres an area of ground come up riddled with roe, its let...only to someone "qualified". Qualified for what exactly! they have dsc1 and dsc2 which took them less than 6 months to do and they payed the most for the ground, which got them the ground.....therefore there are flaws, argue all you like but these are facts.

 

Too many people get the paperwork and think theyre an expert. as soon as theyre an assesor, thats it...straight to their head. Not all, i have to admit ive met some great guys stalking who are witnesses etc, but there are also some which it has affected.

 

i can think of four guys off the top of my head as i type who would knocks spots off most people in the deer world, two having 30 years experience with deer, deer farming, wild deer, catch ups etc. one having spent 15 years working with whitehead when he was still alive and none of these guys have any paperwork at all but all in top deer jobs. None believe in it either.

 

so like ive said Pros and Cons, its not about divisions, im on this side and your on that blah blah, it certainly has its place, but they need to work on it as far as i see(OPINION)

[2434me 13]

""so like ive said Pros and Cons, its not about divisions, im on this side and your on that blah blah, it certainly has its place, but they need to work on it as far as i see(OPINION)""

 

 

I agree with you 100%, As said in the beginning this is new ! no-one claims this is perfect yet ! But its here to stay and we need to be constructive to iron out any problems along the way .

 

Yes there are some ar$holes trying to work the system .They can only continue if we keep paying them !

Yes there are plenty of vastly experienced stalkers out there who need professional recognition.

 

This is not a certificate to say that anyone is a good stalker .

 

It is a very basic,and I mean basic entry level test to show others that you have an understanding of what stalking is all about .

 

Good luck to everyone for the BUCK SEASON

[markbivvy 6]

The courses are actually getting more popular each month,which means people can see the benefits and the reasons for doing it .

I think some of this could be down to firearms departments insisting on dsc qualifications before they will grant deer rifles.

 

Can anyone tell us why the BDS treat munjak like vermin yet insist on a dsc qualification before you can shoot them. .

An old chap took me under his wing 30 odd year ago, he new more about deer than anyone i have ever met, then the dsc was brought in and he was asked to do it or he would not be allowed to carry on,

he stopped shooting from then on, when i asked him why he told me " why should he be tested by a person who probably know a lot less than him"

the game is a let worse of when people like this pack it in.

how many like have have given up to let a person with a couple of weeks training take on land they will

only play on.

there is a lot of folk going into to stalking, yet we still have a ever mounting deer population,

but without the trophy bucks.