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#76 SportingShooter

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:53 pm

Good advice CUBE. :thumbs:

Apart from the enormous complexity of getting a gun from Scotland to N.I :D

#77 mattydski

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:57 pm

i am looking to buy a rifle to shoot sika deer with. i was thinking of a .243
i would love some advice on calibre/make model/ optics. my budget is about 800 including scope http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub... any ideas?


The original post I think.

So, you want to know what rifle / optic to buy. The various peeps on here can provide you with a wee bit of direction but at the end of the day you need to make your own mind up and that should / probably be based upon a couple of points. 1 - What you feel most comforatble with, which will be based upon 2 - that which you have used to shoot before (I assume rightly or wrongly) coupled with 3 - the availability / advice from your nearest respected gun dealer.

If, at the end of the day you're stuck for a gundealer consider R MacLeod & Sons in Tain, Scotland (miles away I know) who have a formidable selection of most firearms, optics etc. Everybody is different, I like the 0.243 as that is what I learned to shoot on..I have used other rifles, 22-250, 6.5x55, 25.06 and aside from the 243 the best of the lot was the .222 which is not an option here.

I look forward to hearing and seeing what you decided to purchase along with details and piccies of your hunting adventures...

Laters & ATB

CUBE

Good shop Mcleods. My mate just got a Tikka Varmint in .223 from them. Did him a cracking deal.
Matt

#78 CUBE

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:04 pm

Good advice CUBE. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

Apart from the enormous complexity of getting a gun from Scotland to N.I http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...



So now you want transport / export advice too!! ;)

#79 SportingShooter

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:13 pm

Good advice CUBE. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...

Apart from the enormous complexity of getting a gun from Scotland to N.I http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...



So now you want transport / export advice too!! http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Never offer advice on here CUBE, could lead to all sorts :D :D :clapper:

#80 SNAP SHOT

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 08:16 am

As stated early on in the post.......i'm finished with it.......i'm not geting into a slaging match here, oh and i was simply making a statement that the larger the bullet doesn't necessarly mean more killing power, And for your information i only shoot targets in the summer to practice bullet placement and drop at various ranges, i'm a hunter first and foremost.......And i don't need you to tell me weather my deer are living or dead.......
i said i won't reply any more earlier but you can't keep it civil can you......As said the .243 is more than likely the most popular calibre in england and ireland.....If it wasn't upto the job in question do you think the hunters would still have them.....? i'm going to enjoy my day now and head of hunting maybe later, ;) you never know i may just shoot a target too...... :blink:

#81 Mr_Logic

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:08 pm

You keep saying about the Home Office, please post a link.

6.5 doesn't fire the same weight of bullet as 243, so it's a meaningless comparison.

Remington's wonderful ballistics section says:

Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 100 PSP CL 2960 2697 2449 2215 1993 1786
Remington® Express® 140 PSP CL 2550 2353 2164 1984 1814 1654

Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 100 PSP CL 1945 1615 1332 1089 882 708
Remington® Express® 140 PSP CL 2021 1720 1456 1224 1023 850

Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 100 PSP CL 0.1 0.7 zero -2.0 -5.4 -10.4
Remington® Express® 140 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.5 -4.8 -9.9 -17.0

NB deerstalker, please note we're talking 6.5x55, not 6.5mm Rem Mag, they are very different beasts.

Now, 243 has slightly less energy than 6.5x55, but flies flatter out to 300 yards, with a difference that is definitely enough for a humane kill vs either a miss or a wound. Either bullet expands well, either bullet kills a deer well.

Consequently, I'll have the flat shooting one thanks.

Now, if we add 308 to the mix, this is what it looks like:

Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 100 PSP CL 2960 2697 2449 2215 1993 1786
Remington® Express® 140 PSP CL 2550 2353 2164 1984 1814 1654
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2820 2533 2263 2009 1774 1560
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AT BT 2700 2501 2311 2129 1956 1792

Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 100 PSP CL 1945 1615 1332 1089 882 708
Remington® Express® 140 PSP CL 2021 1720 1456 1224 1023 850
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2648 2137 1705 1344 1048 810
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AT BT 2670 2292 1957 1661 1401 1176

Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 100 PSP CL 0.1 0.7 zero -2.0 -5.4 -10.4
Remington® Express® 140 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.5 -4.8 -9.9 -17.0
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.2 -3.9 -8.4 -14.7
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AT BT -0.1 zero -1.3 -4.1 -8.5 -14.7

I've put two 308s on there, as the 150gr is very similar to either 243 or 6.5. The bottom one, the accutip, illustrates the differences even within one calibre. if you look, you see at the muzzle, the two 308s are basically the same, but as you go further out, the energy difference is as much as 33%. Now that's the same calibre...

So, this is a pretty pointless discussion. What the figures show, and they don't lie, is this:

* 243, 6.5x55 and 308 are all potent calibres

* 243 flies flatter than 6.5, meaning you have better penetration with 243, BUT your knockdown is likely to be more potent with 6.5 since it has the same or slightly more energy hitting more slowly

* BUT 6.5's drop means bullet placement is more difficult and sensible range isn't therefore as far.

* either kills a deer dead, what more is there?!

* Only 308 offers you anything more in normal use over 243

* Bullet choice is far more important

And therefore, any of them kill a deer well! To pick between 243 and 6.5x55 is a matter of personal preference. There really isn't anything there, horses for courses. Choose a 308 though, and there is potentially an advantage over either calibre.

#82 SportingShooter

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 01:29 pm

Well Said that Man :thumbs:

#83 Gabriel

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 02:13 pm

Well Said that Man http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


Seconded. Great reply ML. :thumbs:

#84 Guest_JohnGalway_*

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 03:49 pm

I've spent a considerable amount of time editing this topic. I am not happy I had to do that. Therefore, in future, I am going to be editing members, not posts.

Now, we can all agree to disagree. If someone happens along who just won't leg that rag go, that's where you PM a moderator. What you don't do is feed trolls or give stirrers what they're looking for, a reaction.

Bearing that in mind, back to the discussion as this is an interesting topic once certain things were removed (probably not entirely to my satisfaction but this is how it is).

ATB,

John.

#85 Mr_Logic

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:34 pm

Well Said that Man http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...


Seconded. Great reply ML. http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/pub...
Thanks guys :)


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