line breeding?

[Funfuret 1]

I'm a bit surprised, bearing in mind the pitiful medical state of pedigree dogs in general (originally produced by in/line breeding), that anyone would want to go down that pathway.

one word ,Selection read dogs http://www.netpets.com/cats/reference/info/inbreed.html

 

 

Nobody would argue that natural selection doesn't favour the hardier animal but you only have to look around the streets or visit your vet surgery to see the consequences of humans doing the 'selecting'.

 

People involved in species conservation try and maintain a hardy species with genetic diversity by out breeding. Animals are sent thousands of miles just to ensure they mate with an animal that is not closely related. Odd that conservationists should do that if line breeding was the way to maintain healthy stock.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Funfuret

[Bryan 1,361]

If you breed son to mother, won't all the pups be motha F*ckas?

if father to daughter they'll all be red necks!

 

With line breeding you can go as tight as the line allows, with some poor quality starting stock putting unrelated dogs together will give you faults.

The better your stuff the tighter you can breed.

Bryan

[hollands hope 1,013]

I'm a bit surprised, bearing in mind the pitiful medical state of pedigree dogs in general (originally produced by in/line breeding), that anyone would want to go down that pathway.

one word ,Selection read dogs http://www.netpets.com/cats/reference/info/inbreed.html

 

 

Nobody would argue that natural selection doesn't favour the hardier animal but you only have to look around the streets or visit your vet surgery to see the consequences of humans doing the 'selecting'.

 

People involved in species conservation try and maintain a hardy species with genetic diversity by out breeding. Animals are sent thousands of miles just to ensure they mate with an animal that is not closely related. Odd that conservationists should do that if line breeding was the way to maintain healthy stock.

Iam afraid that the dogs your referring to are more the result off the latest fashion in dogs rather than selective breeding ,althoug i have to agree with you that inbreeding,linebreeding is not the holy grail its just a tool when used in combination with common sense Edited October 21, 2008 by hollands hope

[swanseajack 227]

I'm a bit surprised, bearing in mind the pitiful medical state of pedigree dogs in general (originally produced by in/line breeding), that anyone would want to go down that pathway.

 

 

 

pedigree dogs are bred for money, so anything goes.......... runty pups, pups with defects all have/had their values, an unscrupulous breeder wouldn't dare cull a pup worth money, oh lordy, cull a pup lose a couple of hundred quid they wouldn't dream of it.. therein lies that problem.....

[hollands hope 1,013]

I'm a bit surprised, bearing in mind the pitiful medical state of pedigree dogs in general (originally produced by in/line breeding), that anyone would want to go down that pathway.

 

 

 

pedigree dogs are bred for money, so anything goes.......... runty pups, pups with defects all have/had their values, an unscrupulous breeder wouldn't dare cull a pup worth money, oh lordy, cull a pup lose a couple of hundred quid they wouldn't dream of it.. therein lies that problem.....

Couldn,t agree more just to add all breeds off dogs are in thi end the result of inbreeding ,linebreeding althoug it may have been done over a period of thousands of years Edited October 21, 2008 by hollands hope

[francolin 449]

theres no such thing as inbreeding. inbreeding is a man made horor storie. ive never seen any deformatise or faults bred into pups that wasnt allready there to be put into them choose youre stock carfully and there shouldnt be any problem whichever way you breed

 

HOORAY FOR HD ,

 

HES GOT IT IN ONE !!!

 

ONE OF THE GREATEST BREEDERS OF WORKING STOCK IN THE WORLD ONCE SAID TO ME ..................

 

" SON , IF IT WORKS THEY CALL IT LINE BREEDING ........... IF IT DOESNT THEY CALL IT INBREEDING "

 

THAT STATEMENT HAS A LOT OF MEAT IN THEM THERE WORDS !!!

 

 

WHEN INBREEDING / LINE BREEDING FAILS ITS THE BREEDER AT FAULT ... FOR CHOOSING THE WRONG BROOD STOCK .......... AS BELIVE ME LADS........... THERES NO MAGIC FORMULA FOR PRODUCING TOP QUALITY STOCK OVER MANY , MANY YRS FROM A TIGHT BRED FAMILY

 

AND ......................

 

THATS AS MUCH AS IAM SAYING ........ ITS TAKEN ME OVER TWENTY FIVE YRS TO GET TO WHERE IAM AT AND IVE JUST SCRATCHED THE SURFACE

 

 

ALL THE BEST LADS ........... AND THANKS FOR THE LAUGHS !!

 

DUCKWING

whos greatest stock breeder in the world Duckwing

[Funfuret 1]

I'm a bit surprised, bearing in mind the pitiful medical state of pedigree dogs in general (originally produced by in/line breeding), that anyone would want to go down that pathway.

 

 

 

pedigree dogs are bred for money, so anything goes.......... runty pups, pups with defects all have/had their values, an unscrupulous breeder wouldn't dare cull a pup worth money, oh lordy, cull a pup lose a couple of hundred quid they wouldn't dream of it.. therein lies that problem.....

Couldn,t agree more just to add all breeds off dogs are in thi end the result of inbreeding ,linebreeding althoug it may have been done over a period of thousands of years

 

I find it difficult to believe that all dogs are derived from just a few wolves or whatever. Surely geographically different human populations groups would have used different sources. Plus people would have bred back with wolves umpteen times (still doing it in fact LOL) thereby introducing more genes into the dog pool.

 

Also, over the thousands of years dogs have been domesticated a lot of gene variation will have occurred by mutation which happens all the time. Then line breeders come along and start trying to narrow the naturally derived (by natural selection) dog gene pool right down.....

[hollands hope 1,013]

I find it difficult to believe that all dogs are derived from just a few wolves or whatever. Surely geographically different human populations groups would have used different sources. Plus people would have bred back with wolves umpteen times (still doing it in fact LOL) thereby introducing more genes into the dog pool.

 

Also, over the thousands of years dogs have been domesticated a lot of gene variation will have occurred by mutation which happens all the time. Then line breeders come along and start trying to narrow the naturally derived (by natural selection) dog gene pool right down.....

I can go along with thi above except the line breeding part where the features who are needed will be favoured ,there lies the difference in show breeders against to them who work there dogs

[dogbone 0]

Ethics aside.... ,why can't you breed son over mother or brother over sister...surely interbreeding or line breeding or whatever you want to call it simply reinforces a gene that is there already....it doesn't invent a bad gene !!!!!! or does it???????

 

Turtles

 

Ruby

it does reinforces the type you want but with mother and son or brother and sister they turn out shite

dont animals in the wild interbreed then, they dont seem to have any problems!?....like afican hunting dogs, lions ,tigers etc etc Edited October 21, 2008 by dogbone

[Blake 2]

if you inbreed or line breed for too many generations you will end up with a genetic bottle neck, which is what has happened with some of the show dogs, mainly caused by certain popular stud dogs dominating the gene pool.

 

in America the black toy poodle has an inbreeding coefficiency of 22.5%, a brother to sister mating produces young with a 25% coefficient.

 

That means ALL black pedigree Toy poodles in America are almost brothers and sisters.

 

An inbreeding coefficient of 12.5% is considered to be the maximum safe ammount of inbreeding, which is half brother x half sister or father to grand daughter or uncle to niece.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Steve Summers

[Blake 2]

Cheetahs have inbreeding problems BIG TIME !

 

 

Ruby

it does reinforces the type you want but with mother and son or brother and sister they turn out shite

dont animals in the wild interbreed then, they dont seem to have any problems!?....like afican hunting dogs, lions ,tigers etc etc

[labsnlurchers 39]

There is NO difference breeding father to daughter or son to mother, the dam DOES NOT have more influence in the pups, its 50:50, half from the sperm and half from the egg.

each gene has 2 alleles, one from the dam one from the sire. there are dominant and recessive alleles and the recessive will only be expressed if it is homozygous For example if the bitch is black homozygous call it bb and the dog is brown homozygous call it BB, and brown is dominant over black then ALL the pups will be brown hetrozygous which is bB, there will be NO chance of having a black pup, if a bitch is then bred back to her father ALL the pups will be brown some BB and some bB, if a dog pup is bred back to the dam then some pups from the litter will be brown bB BB and some will be black bb. I have used colour as an example but its the same for EVERY GENE, heart murmurs, deafness, blindness etc etc.......

Line breeding is a lottery, the dam and sire of the original litter may be fine and not express any detremental traits in their phenotype (what they look like) but they may carry a allele for such a trait in their genotype that will be expressed if a pup is bred back to whichever parent carries the detremental gene, makes NO DIFFERENCE if its son over mother or father over daughter.......

you have to expect a % of litter wastage when line breeding and if you dont get any wastage you are lucky, aslong as you can accept that then go ahead and line breed, you wont be the first or the last to do it BUT if everyone did it then there would be a BIG problem for future generations as the gene pool would become vastly reduced and detremental traits would become more and more common

Edited October 21, 2008 by labsnlurchers

[Ozzydogman 9]

There is NO difference breeding father to daughter or son to mother, the dam DOES NOT have more influence in the pups, its 50:50, half from the sperm and half from the egg.

each gene has 2 alleles, one from the dam one from the sire. there are dominant and recessive alleles and the recessive will only be expressed if it is homozygous For example if the bitch is black homozygous call it bb and the dog is brown homozygous call it BB, and brown is dominant over black then ALL the pups will be brown hetrozygous which is bB, there will be NO chance of having a black pup, if a bitch is then bred back to her father ALL the pups will be brown some BB and some bB, if a dog pup is bred back to the dam then some pups from the litter will be brown bB BB and some will be black bb. I have used colour as an example but its the same for EVERY GENE, heart murmurs, deafness, blindness etc etc.......

Line breeding is a lottery, the dam and sire of the original litter may be fine and not express any detremental traits in their phenotype (what they look like) but they may carry a allele for such a trait in their genotype that will be expressed if a pup is bred back to whichever parent carries the detremental gene, makes NO DIFFERENCE if its son over mother or father over daughter.......

you have to expect a % of litter wastage when line breeding and if you dont get any wastage you are lucky, aslong as you can accept that then go ahead and line breed, you wont be the first or the last to do it BUT if everyone did it then there would be a BIG problem for future generations as the gene pool would become vastly reduced and detremental traits would become more and more common

 

Finally, facts amd common sense

 

Linebreeding brings to the surface 2 traits....the good ones and the bad ones. It cant create something that wasnt already there to start with.

 

The reason that conservationists avoid linebreeding is to avoid gene bottlenecking. This is bad because if a new virus/disease enters the wild population, and everything is closely related, then the chance of having genes that are resistant to the new disease are greatly reduced. Its a numbers game.

[shinyspade 2]

in the wild nature will take the unhealthy week or sick. any animal that is not up to scratch wont last long. and only the strongest and fitest will reproduce if you breed close you have to cull hard.

 

edited to say i have bred father to daugher and produced good sound offspring better than the sire and dam

Edited October 22, 2008 by shinyspade

[Mixedgrill 703]

Some Interesting facts