Subversion And The Death Of Democracy

[JohnGalway 1,043]

5 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

Quite possibly. Or he could be the Jonathan Pie or Tommy Robinson of the 80's. Do you think he's wrong though? If you take out the part where he says the KGB did it it's still a remarkably accurate prediction of what is playing out in the news 34 years later.

 

This is my problem, I don't have faith in the video. I think there's an angle in there he isn't disclosing. Take 98% of the truth, stick in 2% of a conspiracy and the pitchforks will get sharpened before you can say tin foil hat. I believe he's being intentionally misleading.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

31 minutes ago, JohnGalway said:

This is my problem, I don't have faith in the video. I think there's an angle in there he isn't disclosing.

Absolutely there is an angle. The interviewer G. Edward Griffin is a member of the anti-communist group the John Birch Society. Griffin is an outspoken conspiracy nutjob. Thinks that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that cancer can be cured nutritionally, that 9/11 was an inside job and that Noah's Ark is situated in Turkey! Bezmenov was a KGB propaganda specialist embedded in Russia's state news before his defection, and an anti-communist lecturer up until his "death" in 1993. Even if he was an actor playing a role and reading from a script, to scare the p*ss out of the average American, his prediction of the subversion of education and mass distraction can be seen if you switch on the telly and turn to any news station.

50 minutes ago, JohnGalway said:

Take 98% of the truth, stick in 2% of a conspiracy and the pitchforks will get sharpened before you can say tin foil hat. I believe he's being intentionally misleading.

That's a fair comment and I don't believe the KGB are responsible for subverting much of anything although if you look at the education systems in both of our respective continents you can't help but see that academia is pretty heavily weighted towards LeftThink. To me, that was the core part that I took away from the interview and I'd concur it's accurate even if it was broadcast on an episode of the Simpsons.

What I gained from the interview was that teaching people to think critically and not be distracted by blatant showmanship is just as important now as it was then and also that while the faces may have changed the tactics haven't and if you want to see long-term policy changes you have to educate children.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

 

[WILF 44,262]

Do you lads not think that while we are looking for big facts and “accurate” information that actually we are just missing what’s right in front of our nose?

I believe that, other than very small relatively isolated communities, every other place is a microcosm if the country and world at large.

Its right there, outside the window!

It seems to be that we have a constant need to prove to ourself that which is right in front of our eyes because somehow we dont quiet believe it or maybe we don’t want to believe it.......or you just don’t care?

I believe what I see........and I’m pretty sick of governments and “well informed” people telling me I’m making it all up.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

Do you lads not think that while we are looking for big facts and “accurate” information that actually we are just missing what’s right in front of our nose?

I believe that, other than very small relatively isolated communities, every other place is a microcosm if the country and world at large.

Its right there, outside the window!

It seems to be that we have a constant need to prove to ourself that which is right in front of our eyes because somehow we dont quiet believe it or maybe we don’t want to believe it.......or you just don’t care?

I believe what I see........and I’m pretty sick of governments and “well informed” people telling me I’m making it all up.

Yes and no.

I couldn't realistically use the view from my front window in a town of 600 people as an all-encompassing model for a city of 6 million. The two just won't gel.

Would you rely on just your senses even though human fallibility can be demonstrated over and over again? Do you think that being in possession of all the facts is a bad thing?

[WILF 44,262]

Just now, ChrisJones said:

Yes and no.

I couldn't realistically use the view from my front window in a town of 600 people as an all-encompassing model for a city of 6 million. The two just won't gel.

Would you rely on just your senses even though human fallibility can be demonstrated over and over again? Do you think that being in possession of all the facts is a bad thing?

I don’t think it’s a bad thing mate but I think you have to trust yourself........if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....then it’s a duck ya know.

You put that video up and some of us (like me) are saying “f**k yeah, I can see that” but then you question yourself......why?

Loads of it is spot on, and I’m not saying it’s the KGB but I definitely see a big plan by governments.

It has to be a plan because I respect my enemy enough to know they are not stupid and they are not letting national identities die, re-engineeeing society and chipping away at freedom by accident.

If 85% of crimes are committed by ginger people then the problem is with gingers, simple, uncomplicated and much easier to deal with.......but throw in some double speak, let an academic tell you that you need some facts, have a bunch of people make you doubt yourself and now the whole problem just got complicated and impossible to deal with......so it gets left and you feel defeated.

Simple is good, simple works.......you don’t need a PhD to see your own town going down the crapper.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 hour ago, WILF said:

I don’t think it’s a bad thing mate but I think you have to trust yourself........if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....then it’s a duck ya know.

I can agree with that to a point but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it might be the great Phil Robertson testing to see whether he can fool you.

1 hour ago, WILF said:

You put that video up and some of us (like me) are saying “f**k yeah, I can see that” but then you question yourself......why?

Loads of it is spot on, and I’m not saying it’s the KGB but I definitely see a big plan by governments.

I can agree there too mate but I can't completely disregard someone because it doesn't fit my pre-conceived biases. I wouldn't sit and study a century worth of socialist doctrine but if someone did I wouldn't be in a rush to dismiss them because I might not be able to see it's immediate influence. Same with anything else I have even a trifling interest in. Now, this subject you and I have a degree of agreement. I can see how the deck has been stacked in academia so to see an alleged KGB defector say it out loud rings a lot of bells simultaneously. There's that pattern where you can see it with your own eyes. But he credits the Soviets for it, which I can't agree with because they defined the failure of government through inefficiency. Deep-rooted Marxist ideology in education is glaringly obvious, IMHO, so he's partly right.

1 hour ago, WILF said:

It has to be a plan because I respect my enemy enough to know they are not stupid and they are not letting national identities die, re-engineeeing society and chipping away at freedom by accident.

My thought is one of stupidity over malice. Hanlon's Razor, whereby I cannot attribute malice to something that can be equally explained by stupidity. I look at academia in the UK since the second world war and how Marx was pushed and a couple of generations of youth had ideas that he had all the answers. A form of ideological brainwashing. These are people that now have prominent places in the running of the nation, just like Bezmenov said in the interview. Everyone in parliament has some exposure to it and agree on a sliding scale that Marx has all the answers. Where I disagree with Bezmenov is that I don't believe it is a government conspiracy from the soviet era. I believe that there are just too many people in influential positions that sincerely believe this b*llsh*t and genuinely believe that it's for the best. Again they're ignoring all the facts and figures to the contrary and going with what they can grasp with their own senses. They believe their view just as strongly as we believe ours and are also ignoring people that say "just hang on a minute..."

1 hour ago, WILF said:

If 85% of crimes are committed by ginger people then the problem is with gingers, simple, uncomplicated and much easier to deal with.......but throw in some double speak, let an academic tell you that you need some facts, have a bunch of people make you doubt yourself and now the whole problem just got complicated and impossible to deal with......so it gets left and you feel defeated.

400 years ago the populous was convinced that old women with warts were able to cast spells and as a result shouldn't be allowed to live anymore. They weren't overly concerned with academic research into the validity of magic. Today one of the largest populations on the planet agree that powdered rhino horn cures impotence. It doesn't, but we've pushed a species to the brink of extinction. Some people on this forum believe vaccines cause autism. It doesn't and we're now seeing outbreaks of diseases that were almost eradicated. Sometimes doubting yourself is a good thing and just because a simple interpretation works it doesn't mean it's right.

1 hour ago, WILF said:

Simple is good, simple works.......you don’t need a PhD to see your own town going down the crapper.

I can't argue with that in principle but would you agree that if you can identify the problem you can craft a solution?

If so wouldn't you want to have all the pieces of the puzzle or else you won't be able to solve it?

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by ChrisJones
Typo

[WILF 44,262]

Look at the European project, to everyone looking it’s a shift towards a massive superstate, aided by the demoralisation and destruction of the nation state.

The illusion of democracy is given but actually its layers, like bulkheads on a ship, to protect those at the top from the will of the people......at the top, there is no democracy and if it’s not at the top then it’s nowhere.

I dont need an academic to tell me that, I have eyes, I can read and I witnessed the destruction of state outside my window........there it is, I believe it.

Others tell me it’s not true but you very often find they are on the payroll somehow.

Should I double check or do I trust my senses? 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

Look at the European project, to everyone looking it’s a shift towards a massive superstate, aided by the demoralisation and destruction of the nation state.

The illusion of democracy is given but actually its layers, like bulkheads on a ship, to protect those at the top from the will of the people......at the top, there is no democracy and if it’s not at the top then it’s nowhere.

I dont need an academic to tell me that, I have eyes, I can read and I witnessed the destruction of state outside my window........there it is, I believe it.

Others tell me it’s not true but you very often find they are on the payroll somehow.

Should I double check or do I trust my senses? 

I don't believe for a minute that you simply looked at Europe and drew that conclusion. You researched it enough to satisfy your own curiosity. You're absolutely right too, BTW.

If I wanted to know how Sunderland was going to change their fortunes I'd go to the source...

[WILF 44,262]

4 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

I can agree with that to a point but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it might be the great Phil Robertson testing to see whether he can fool you.

I can agree there too mate but I can't completely disregard someone because it doesn't fit my pre-conceived biases. I wouldn't sit and study a century worth of socialist doctrine but if someone did I wouldn't be in a rush to dismiss them because I might not be able to see it's immediate influence. Same with anything else I have even a trifling interest in. Now, this subject you and I have a degree of agreement. I can see how the deck has been stacked in academia so to see an alleged KGB defector say it out loud rings a lot of bells simultaneously. There's that pattern where you can see it with your own eyes. But he credits the Soviets for it, which I can't agree with because they defined the failure of government inefficiency. Deep-rooted Marxist ideology in education is glaringly obvious, IMHO, so he's partly right.

My thought is one of stupidity over malice. Hanlon's Razor, whereby I cannot attribute malice to something that can be equally explained by stupidity. I look at academia in the UK since the second world war and how Marx was pushed and a couple of generations of youth had ideas that he had all the answers. A form of ideological brainwashing. These are people that now have prominent places in the running of the nation, just like Bezmenov said in the interview. Everyone in parliament has some exposure to it and agree on a sliding scale that Marx has all the answers. Where I disagree with Bezmenov is that I don't believe it is a government conspiracy from the soviet era. I believe that there are just too many people in influential positions that sincerely believe this b*llsh*t and genuinely believe that it's for the best. Again they're ignoring all the facts and figures to the contrary and going with what they can grasp with their own senses. They believe their view just as strongly as we believe ours and are also ignoring people that say "just hang on a minute..."

400 years ago the populous was convinced that old women with warts were able to cast spells and as a result shouldn't be allowed to live anymore. They weren't overly concerned with academic research into the validity of magic. Today one of the largest populations on the planet agree that powdered rhino horn cures impotence. It doesn't, but we've pushed a species to the brink of extinction. Some people on this forum believe vaccines cause autism. It doesn't and we're now seeing outbreaks of diseases that were almost eradicated. Sometimes doubting yourself is a good thing and just because a simple interpretation works it doesn't mean it's right.

I can't argue with that in principle but would you agree that if you can identify the problem you can craft a solution?

If so wouldn't you want to have all the pieces of the puzzle or else you won't be able to solve it?

 

I can’t really argue with your logic at all my friend.......however, I am a firm believer in sometimes you can think things through too much and while you are doing it you have been over run.......sometimes you just have to say “f**k all that” , fix bayonets and not give a bollocks about the reasons why pal.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

2 minutes ago, WILF said:

I can’t really argue with your logic at all my friend.......however, I am a firm believer in sometimes you can think things through too much and while you are doing it you have been over run.......sometimes you just have to say “f**k all that” , fix bayonets and not give a bollocks about the reasons why pal.

We only differ where the complexity of the problem is. Sometimes there is a simple solution sometimes it requires more thought process. That's why I carry 30 rounds magazines!

[WILF 44,262]

5 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

We only differ where the complexity of the problem is. Sometimes there is a simple solution sometimes it requires more thought process. That's why I carry 30 rounds magazines!

And there you have it mate, make no mistake, we are in a fight and its here and it’s at your door (in Europe at least) and the time for trying to be Mr Nice Thoughtfull guy and consider everyone’s feelings is over.......it’s time for countries, for nation states and their people to say “f**k everyone else, we want to survive” 

Edited May 21, 2018 by WILF