How many working terrier are registred to the Kennel Club ?

[Blaise 2,253]

According to you, How many working terrier are registred to the Kennel Club ?

[rob284 1,678]

Less that 1% would probably be overestimating it.

[neil cooney 10,415]

Here in Ireland I would say that 100% of every terrier registered by the IKC was either a worker or it's parents were if you asked the owner.

If you asked the owner of every working terrier in Ireland was their terrier K.C. registered 0% would say yes ,although some might hit you with a shovel, but you'd deserve that for asking such a question.

 

 

In saying that.....................I did see some Glen Of Imalls about 15 years ago who were registered and their owner asked me to try them for him. Which I did and to be honest they showed prospect but I suggested an outcross, which he did, and he registered them but that's not really PROPER registered pure breds , is it ?

[fat man 4,740]

On 1/31/2018 at 21:33, neil cooney said:

Here in Ireland I would say that 100% of every terrier registered by the IKC was either a worker or it's parents were if you asked the owner.

If you asked the owner of every working terrier in Ireland was their terrier K.C. registered 0% would say yes ,although some might hit you with a shovel, but you'd deserve that for asking such a question.

 

 

In saying that.....................I did see some Glen Of Imalls about 15 years ago who were registered and their owner asked me to try them for him. Which I did and to be honest they showed prospect but I suggested an outcross, which he did, and he registered them but that's not really PROPER registered pure breds , is it ?

What ever became of that chap with the glens does he still do a bit with them.

[neil cooney 10,415]

Nope, met him last Summer and he's got out of them. But I do hope the outcross he made is still running in the lines of KC Glens. Kennel Club breeds need more breeders like him who have a bit of foresight. They mightn't be in the trouble they are if they did.

[Hatch28 240]

4 hours ago, neil cooney said:

Here in Ireland I would say that 100% of every terrier registered by the IKC was either a worker or it's parents were if you asked the owner.

If you asked the owner of every working terrier in Ireland was their terrier K.C. registered 0% would say yes ,although some might hit you with a shovel, but you'd deserve that for asking such a question.

 

 

In saying that.....................I did see some Glen Of Imalls about 15 years ago who were registered and their owner asked me to try them for him. Which I did and to be honest they showed prospect but I suggested an outcross, which he did, and he registered them but that's not really PROPER registered pure breds , is it ?

what did he out cross them to

[neil cooney 10,415]

12 minutes ago, Hatch28 said:

what did he out cross them to

A well thought out cross 

[Hatch28 240]

1 hour ago, neil cooney said:

A well thought out cross 

A chocolate pat so

[eastcoast 3,727]

Bliase, you have asked a question on THL and not had much response. I find that a shame as many of us, myself included, have asked questions of yourself and have been given prompt and considered replies. I am by no means the best person to answer your question but will give my opinion. If you were a person from the continent with no experience of the working terrier then  it would be a relatively simple question to answer, but you have the real working terrier. Your thread on THL confirms this.

The Continent for this purpose being the land mass of Europe not including England, Ireland (North & South), Scotland and Wales.  I will call this place the British Isles.

The Kennel Club was formed in 1873. The working terrier existed in the British Isles long before that date. The names given to them and colours may of changed but the type never has. Men in the British Isles possessed working terriers prior to 1873 and the formation of the Kennel Club is an irrelevance  The exact same dogs that you and your fellow hunters in France now have.

The 1st terrier to be registered was the Fox Terrier in 1873. The Fox Terrier ceased to be a working terrier shortly after, in name only, but the type of terrier survived and does to this day.

It was different on the Continent in my opinion. Countries that had no indigenous dogs of this type, but developed a love for terrier work utilised the animals that had been imported from the British Isles. KC show bred dogs that had been changed in type and temperament. Very different animals from the original and bred/developed to warped breed standards.  But that's all that was available (2 World Wars and all that) and they were put to work on the Continent and it appears that they do the job.

To answer your question, no KC breeds are worked in the British Isles. Yes some Parson Russell's, some Border Terriers and Bedlingtons together with isolated individual animals that break the rules  .But the working terrier existed before the Kennel Club and the two are not connected.

 

[p3d 879]

On 1/31/2018 at 12:36, Blaise said:

According to you, How many working terrier are registred to the Kennel Club ?

Not many in my opinion.

If you look at the Irish kennel club breeds, only the odd few Wheaten or Glen of Imaal terriers may be seen in the field today. The Irish and Kerry blue terriers were never really used as we know the breed now. The original Irish terrier was a very small digging dog, probably even smaller than a red fell terrier today. Original Irish terriers when introduced into the kennel club had two show classes for under or over 7 pound (3kg). So an ideal fox type terrier size.The Irish terrier and Kerry Blue today are not working dogs. 

The Wheaten and Glen are from the same root stock. The Glen just had a dwarf gene in the Wheaten strain and the show people started a new breed. The Glen of Imaal is a desolated virtually unpopulated area in Ireland that has been used as military bomb range for over a century. there is no history of a SPECIAL breed that was ever started there. 

Blaise the type of work you do with your terriers is the work that terriermen did in Ireland before the arrival of the locator collar. Single terrier below ground travelling 10/20 metres underground in a natural earth. The dog had to be predominately a bayer (sounder), otherwise the terrierman could not locate them to dig. Hard digging terriers would not last long.

The Irish kennel club terrier breeds could not travel 1 metre in a natural earth. Some of them could not get there head into the burrow. They were also hard dogs usually used and the end of a dig, when the small terrier earth dog had done all the work and the quarry was exposed to the light.

The Irish kennel club attempted to keep a connection with working terriers by building false earths and letting these LARGE dogs get tested. Early in its history some of these breeds could not become champions unless they had a certificate for working in these false earths. As you can imagine (there was a video of those trials on here recently) these had nothing to do with earthwork. This is what kennel clubs do, they attempt to imitate what a terrier has to do in the field but they do not really know what they are doing. 

English Fox terriers (Smooth and Wire) and Border terriers were around and worked in the 1970's.in Ireland. I have seen a few of these dogs work and some of them were decent workers. The arrival of the Black smooth dogs pushed a lot of these dogs to the sidelines. Black smooth harder dogs combined with locator collars changed the landscape of working terriers. Some think it is for the better, others would disagree.

The Jack Russell terrier has always been around and is still worked today, as long as the Kennel club keep there hands off them they will be around for a long time doing what they were designed for. Working underground.

 

[Lenmcharristar 9,172]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 14:58, p3d said:

Not many in my opinion.

If you look at the Irish kennel club breeds, only the odd few Wheaten or Glen of Imaal terriers may be seen in the field today. The Irish and Kerry blue terriers were never really used as we know the breed now. The original Irish terrier was a very small digging dog, probably even smaller than a red fell terrier today. Original Irish terriers when introduced into the kennel club had two show classes for under or over 7 pound (3kg). So an ideal fox type terrier size.The Irish terrier and Kerry Blue today are not working dogs. 

The Wheaten and Glen are from the same root stock. The Glen just had a dwarf gene in the Wheaten strain and the show people started a new breed. The Glen of Imaal is a desolated virtually unpopulated area in Ireland that has been used as military bomb range for over a century. there is no history of a SPECIAL breed that was ever started there. 

Blaise the type of work you do with your terriers is the work that terriermen did in Ireland before the arrival of the locator collar. Single terrier below ground travelling 10/20 metres underground in a natural earth. The dog had to be predominately a bayer (sounder), otherwise the terrierman could not locate them to dig. Hard digging terriers would not last long.

The Irish kennel club terrier breeds could not travel 1 metre in a natural earth. Some of them could not get there head into the burrow. They were also hard dogs usually used and the end of a dig, when the small terrier earth dog had done all the work and the quarry was exposed to the light.

The Irish kennel club attempted to keep a connection with working terriers by building false earths and letting these LARGE dogs get tested. Early in its history some of these breeds could not become champions unless they had a certificate for working in these false earths. As you can imagine (there was a video of those trials on here recently) these had nothing to do with earthwork. This is what kennel clubs do, they attempt to imitate what a terrier has to do in the field but they do not really know what they are doing. 

English Fox terriers (Smooth and Wire) and Border terriers were around and worked in the 1970's.in Ireland. I have seen a few of these dogs work and some of them were decent workers. The arrival of the Black smooth dogs pushed a lot of these dogs to the sidelines. Black smooth harder dogs combined with locator collars changed the landscape of working terriers. Some think it is for the better, others would disagree.

The Jack Russell terrier has always been around and is still worked today, as long as the Kennel club keep there hands off them they will be around for a long time doing what they were designed for. Working underground.

 

good post, long live the working terriers

[WHWT 1,862]

I got KC West Highland White Terrier that works but he was bought for my lassie to come out for walks with my other dogs, he just tagged along and picked it up but as the rest of the lads said few and far between. 

That him in their you can just make him out.

And that him doing what I do most i know lot people say not propa terrier work but keeps them busy by way he beating two good ratting Plummers to the punch their.

PUD

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by WHWT

[stop.end 4,079]

Good man WHWT and dont matter what they say but when he killing rats on mass like he is ..who cares..you certainly shouldnt..keep him at it.

[jiggy 3,207]

The French kennel club is a completely different organisation as the Irish or British versions. Like chalk and cheese. The French appreciate the working aspect of things. The Irish and U.K. Have long since lost that aspect and the working dogmen would prefer to distance themselves from the K.C

[Mr. Mxyzptlk 13]

what is Master Earth Terrier or Field Trial Champion? are they really indicators of a Terriers working ability