Does pellet expantion really matter on impact ?

[mark williams 7,549]

I was intrigued the other day by a post from " our Rezmond" showing a Barracuda Hunter Extreme ( I think ? ) after being shot into a hollow rubber ball.

                         The pellet had expanded across it`s face considerably.

                          So I thought I should post two Falcon Accuracy Plus pellets (.22) taken from two despatched Grey Squirrels I recently shot.

 

Neither .22 pellet exited these squirrels, both heart lung shot with immediate despatch to approx.` 35 yds.

                   The FAP pellet on the left is heavily marked as it went through ribs, heart , ribs and finally through the shoulder and leg of the left sided squirrel lodging just under the skin about to exit.

                    No expanding head or skirt but the full force of the .22 FAP was taken by these squirrels and despatch was instant !

                    The FWB Sport is spitting the 13.43 FAP`s out at 622 ft/sec on average and extremely accurate. ( 11.54 ft/lbs )

                    I feel the FWB 124 .177 Exact Express 7.87 g pellet would have passed cleanly through both squirrels but still have given instant despatch.

 

 

                         

[charlie caller 3,654]

In a word no, I have recovered quite a few hunter extreme pellets from dead quarry, none of which had expanded in any way worth noting, although I have to say the HE do produce very clean kills, I think in an fac rifle they may expand further, but at the end of the day shotgun pellets, large and small dont expand, but do the job very nicely, as long as a vital area is struck, and enough energy imparted a clean kill will almost always result.

[philpot 4,925]

I have tried the H&N Barracuda Hunter Extremes in .22 and .25 through my FAC rifles but to be honest they have not deformed much if at all but I am not too keen on chopping up the quarry to find pellets so it has only been pellets that were easy to get at that I have looked at. They do have quite some stopping power though but there again so do the pellets I normally use in those rifles. AA Fields .25, 25.4gr and AA Field Heavy .22, 18gr.

In sub 12, .22 the best ratting pellet for me was JSB RS although I never saw if they were flattened.

 

Phil

[si brown 8,486]

the HE's are a good pellet in .177 if they suit the barrel, accurate as you like but suffer in the wind... they drop crows all day long and are even better at fac levels,

I like them for the woods as Charlie said there a propper stopper... but I stopped using them round the farms cos they pass straight through the rats and ricochet witch is no good for me!

ive been out using the .177 100 the last couple of nights with it being so cold the 14 shot mags are a right bonus, ive been using the jsb express 7.8's for the first time!

there a bloody good rat stopper and accurate even though its been windy... ive not picked any of the rats up never mind opens them up for a look but the only noticeable ricochets were from head shots so I stopped doing them,,, a lot of the rats just fall onto there sides and thats it.. but I shot a few ferrels with them as well and although they dropped eventually  they dont compare to the HE's on the birds..... 

I recon the HE's just do a lot more internal damage on the way through, they certainly dont dump there energy prob cos the leads so dense!

 

[villaman 9,979]

Hit anything in the right place = dead 

[The one 8,395]

While gutting rabbits ive retrieved a few pellet and i dont think any have been badly deformed  but they have traveled some distance under the skin from the point of impact 

[philpot 4,925]

3 hours ago, si brown said:

the HE's are a good pellet in .177 if they suit the barrel, accurate as you like but suffer in the wind... they drop crows all day long and are even better at fac levels,

I like them for the woods as Charlie said there a propper stopper... but I stopped using them round the farms cos they pass straight through the rats and ricochet witch is no good for me!

ive been out using the .177 100 the last couple of nights with it being so cold the 14 shot mags are a right bonus, ive been using the jsb express 7.8's for the first time!

there a bloody good rat stopper and accurate even though its been windy... ive not picked any of the rats up never mind opens them up for a look but the only noticeable ricochets were from head shots so I stopped doing them,,, a lot of the rats just fall onto there sides and thats it.. but I shot a few ferrels with them as well and although they dropped eventually  they dont compare to the HE's on the birds..... 

I recon the HE's just do a lot more internal damage on the way through, they certainly dont dump there energy prob cos the leads so dense!

 

I have to agree So, the lighter pellets really do the job on rats.

Phil

[Rez 4,957]

"Our rezmond"  

No it doesn't. I don't think anyway. Hit the right spot and that's the main aim. No pun intended.

That ball in question was on the harder side, to be fair to the pellet. I was actually showing how well designed the pellet was for it to expan in such a symmetrical way. However, persoanlly, I think I'd much rather be hit by an object that doesn't expand, than one that does... as one that does hits with much more force, traveling at the same speed/weight ratio of course. It's pure physics. 

Like you mark, I've pulled pellets out of game and found they've hardly deformed at all. Mainly tree rats as it happens. But the target was clean lights out. So no problems. Think I prefer a pellet that doesn't for some reason.

ive just bought some flat headed RWS target lead for my 45, plan on seeing how they go in my 98 on the feath red uns'. 

[mark williams 7,549]

In all these years, I`ve still to find a better , more accurate , harder hitting pellet than 11.9 grain  RWS Hobby flat heads for close range ratting under 30 yds.

                    After 30 yds accuracy begins to fall but under 30 yds they " don`t half dump their energy" into the vermin 

[Rez 4,957]

11 minutes ago, mark williams said:

In all these years, I`ve still to find a better , more accurate , harder hitting pellet than 11.9 grain  RWS Hobby flat heads for close range ratting under 30 yds.

                    After 30 yds accuracy begins to fall but under 30 yds they " don`t half dump their energy" into the vermin 

Well, I hope these flatties do the same. I shall keep you informed. Don't really like flat heads, never found a problem with the good old dome, but looking forward to seeing how they turn out. Super light though, 7.9gn. Perhaps they'll prefer 6 FPE to 10.

 dump their energy... 

[mark williams 7,549]

Here`s the Hobby flat head power under 30 yds with a 9 ft/lbs, just bought, tired old  FWB Sport .22. before tuning.

               Devastating stoppage power the Hobby  with a 12 ft/lb rifle under 30 yds.

 

                          " Instant despatch" by the way.

[Rez 4,957]

1 hour ago, mark williams said:

Here`s the Hobby flat head power under 30 yds with a 9 ft/lbs, just bought, tired old  FWB Sport .22. before tuning.

               Devastating stoppage power the Hobby  with a 12 ft/lb rifle under 30 yds.

 

                          " Instant despatch" by the way.

What?! No headshot?! Slackin...  

x

[Jonjon79 13,340]

I had a quick chat about this recently - at the moment, I don't know if it's because the lighter weight pellets arrive faster and stop quicker or, because they deform and split when they hit something solid (skull as opposed to ribs).

 

I've seen a couple of debates about this on other forums in the past - Pellet dumping all of its energy Vs pass through wound channel.

 ...... I prefer hunting with .177 heavy pellets in my PCPs. For me it seems to be a good medium - there's a good initial clout because of the kinetic energy from the extra weight, followed by a long wound channel.

Some of my quickest, cleanest kills have come from a pellet passing through a rabbits head.

 

Yet, I prefer a lighter pellet in my springers.

 

Either way, I think as long as the accuracy and power is there, it doesn't really matter.

 

The pigeon and squirrel below were both hit with a .22 FAP from a TX. the pigeon was front on from less than 25yrds.

From the damage caused, I reckon the thinner construction of a lightweight pellet allowed it to squish and start breaking up almost as soon as it hit.

 

The rabbit was hit with a .177 JSB Heavy that left a slightly bigger hole on the other side (note the puddle).

 ..... This one just fell over on it's side without so much as a leg wave. I moved it for the picture.

 

I've often wondered what's best - honestly, feck knows.

 ..... As long I can shoot it and cook it, I'm happy

[Rez 4,957]

Them GSX 100's really are good lookers init. Have you still got that Jon? 

[Jonjon79 13,340]

18 minutes ago, Rez said:

Them GSX 100's really are good lookers init. Have you still got that Jon? 

They are nice mate but, I chopped it in against my latest HW100 last yeat.

 

I think my RFD has still got it.