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EDDIE B

Is This The New Stoat Trap?

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14 hours ago, EDDIE B said:

 A trap with a built in cubby, makes it bulky and unsuitable for certain situations. You mIght as well just use the Doc 150, as this Tully Trap. Their design actually looks pretty similar to the Doc IMO.

The biggest difference is that as demonstrated in the video this trap can be set easily while held in your hand, a Doc 150 needs to be screwed down to something solid in order to set it effectively. This trap is also designed to share key dimensions with the Fenn trap (same width and height as he says in the vid), That means it should fit into many existing tunnels as most should be longer than this trap anyway. Thus this trap can in theory be used in many of the same situations where people have their Fenns right now as a 'drop in' replacement. The DOC currently has to be used in a box that matches the DOC specifications and has to be attached to it, so it is a much less practical option on both of those scores.

Soon enough the Fenns won't be legal for stoats so replacements will be needed, we should be grateful this guy has gone to the effort to at least try and develop an alternative option, even if it might be imperfect it does seem to offer something different to the DOCs.

Only stoat is covered in these new trap changes coming so there's not much reason for it not to be available for rats, weasels and Squirrels and maybe other things.

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1 hour ago, randombadger said:

The biggest difference is that as demonstrated in the video this trap can be set easily while held in your hand, a Doc 150 needs to be screwed down to something solid in order to set it effectively. This trap is also designed to share key dimensions with the Fenn trap (same width and height as he says in the vid), That means it should fit into many existing tunnels as most should be longer than this trap anyway. Thus this trap can in theory be used in many of the same situations where people have their Fenns right now as a 'drop in' replacement. The DOC currently has to be used in a box that matches the DOC specifications and has to be attached to it, so it is a much less practical option on both of those scores.

Soon enough the Fenns won't be legal for stoats so replacements will be needed, we should be grateful this guy has gone to the effort to at least try and develop an alternative option, even if it might be imperfect it does seem to offer something different to the DOCs.

Only stoat is covered in these new trap changes coming so there's not much reason for it not to be available for rats, weasels and Squirrels and maybe other things.

Some good points there randombadger. The size is something i must have missed in the video. Would you still agree that the Tully ain't as versatile as the Fenn MK4? Also, I believe that centre baffle may exclude squirrel from being a target species with this trap?

Yes the Fenn is well known for its faults, but it is a fairly reasonably priced trap.

Sorry I am being a bit picky/negative here, but such is human nature. Ive based my opinion on a short piece of video, and haven't even seen the Tully trap in the flesh, so yes, " what would i know!"

 

 

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You may be right about the centre baffle and grey squirrel, although perhaps that could be modified. If the aim of the baffle is just to slow down a fast moving stoat so that the strike bar hits it then slowing a grey squirrely down to a complete halt might be fine as its head will be right in the strike zone. And it probably doesn't matter if the trap is used in a single entrance box instead of a run-through tunnel.

I'd agree that the Fenns are more versatile and reasonably priced, however it is also often less efficient at ensuring a quick clean kill, particularly when used sloppily by the inexperienced or disinterested. That isn't to say it can't get a clean kill but I think the point of this trap is to try and ensure that every kill is clean and quick (or as close to that as the legislation is about to demand) and to make it fool proof rather than to rely on the supposed skill (or lack of) that the trapper possesses.

The Tully appears to have passed those tests,  it seems unlikely to allow more animals to be caught, just to do so more 'humanely', but until people start using them in the field who really knows if it will do the business

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So if fenns are banned for stoats but still used for rats etc there will no need to buy any more as there must be excuses for non target catches .We used to set fenns for rats and caught most things .Whats the panic .

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3 hours ago, foxdropper said:

So if fenns are banned for stoats but still used for rats etc there will no need to buy any more as there must be excuses for non target catches .We used to set fenns for rats and caught most things .Whats the panic .

Well I suppose it's to avoid ending up in court to defend yourself against ridiculous regulations. There's a lot of prying eye's out there. More so in the UK, compared to here it seems. So I think it's important to cover yourself. Nobody wants old Bill knocking at the door. 

 There's actually an anti trapping group I came across on the net somewhere, who upload lots of photo's of non-target catches, to show how careless us trappers are, with no regard for wildlife. I'm sure these people would do their very best to try bury some poor unfortunate, with such material if at all possible.

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You are correct Eddie,...times are a' changing...

What we did do, and what we had best be seen to be doing now, is destined to become the order of the day...

This fecking Stoat thing is ridiculous,...quite how it all got to this I'll never know :blink:

Hopefully, as stated earlier,..the Fenn will remain,..put on some muscle, hit a bit harder, then maybe we can all go back to how things were...

If not,..a viable economic solution will have to be found,..however, same as when the Gin was banned and the Fenn came in,.they old Keepers ain't gonna like it.:laugh:

 

 

 

 

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So will you break the law if anything else is caught in  the new trap bar stoats. 

Trouble with this country is we are a nation of whingers ,with no drive to do anything about what is perceived to be silly change  .Who is fighting the corner for the fenn?.

How can 30 years of trapping suddenly be wrong .

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1 hour ago, foxdropper said:

So will you break the law if anything else is caught in  the new trap bar stoats. 

Trouble with this country is we are a nation of whingers ,with no drive to do anything about what is perceived to be silly change  .Who is fighting the corner for the fenn?.

How can 30 years of trapping suddenly be wrong .

In my opinion they have always been wrong they  are a glorified Rat trap and that is about it, Ferrets , Rabbits,Squirrels are constantly not killed in the allotted in time and more often than not killed  at all , they are rubbish and expensive rubbish as  well.

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3 hours ago, foxdropper said:

So will you break the law if anything else is caught in  the new trap bar stoats. 

Trouble with this country is we are a nation of whingers ,with no drive to do anything about what is perceived to be silly change  .Who is fighting the corner for the fenn?.

How can 30 years of trapping suddenly be wrong .

All any of us can do, is to show that we done everything we possibly could to make sure non targets aren't caught. After that, it really is out of our hands, what a judge deems legal or not.

Wish it were different, but that's how it is in these times.

With regards, the Fenn. For me, I think it's one the best catching traps available to us. It is so versatile, that I don't think there is anything out there to match, as an all rounder. I mean, it can be used for all targets, in so many different scenarios, and ways.

 I stand by that. The best catching trap we have at our disposal. But, and it's a big BUT, it's also the worst killing trap of all the main traps we use. 

Some will say they are great traps, and some will say, they are shit. Both answers in my opinion are correct.

I say this to myself all the time, and Phil mentioned it earlier. Why, o why dont they put more power into those Fenn's. Mk4's and 6's! Then we'd have a good humane trap, that does the job it's suppose to do. 

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1 hour ago, EDDIE B said:

All any of us can do, is to show that we done everything we possibly could to make sure non targets aren't caught. After that, it really is out of our hands, what a judge deems legal or not.

Wish it were different, but that's how it is in these times.

With regards, the Fenn. For me, I think it's one the best catching traps available to us. It is so versatile, that I don't think there is anything out there to match, as an all rounder. I mean, it can be used for all targets, in so many different scenarios, and ways.

 I stand by that. The best catching trap we have at our disposal. But, and it's a big BUT, it's also the worst killing trap of all the main traps we use. 

Some will say they are great traps, and some will say, they are shit. Both answers in my opinion are correct.

I say this to myself all the time, and Phil mentioned it earlier. Why, o why dont they put more power into those Fenn's. Mk4's and 6's! Then we'd have a good humane trap, that does the job it's suppose to do. 

The  Fenn  trap has plenty of killing power but is applied to the wrong area , it is a Jack of all Trades but Master of none, i think all traps should be designed as  species specific .

Edited by micky
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5 hours ago, micky said:

The  Fenn  trap has plenty of killing power but is applied to the wrong area , it is a Jack of all Trades but Master of none, i think all traps should be designed as  species specific .

That could prove to be costly to those who need to target several species though micky. And then to keep all but the specific trap target out, is practically impossible.

Why can't things just be straight forward eh? lol

Edited by EDDIE B
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Just tried a new, improved Fenn Mk 4,...incredibly powerful spring,..would kill a Stoat easily,.no fecking doubts about that,...but,...:hmm: 

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Most times it' the setting position that dont lend itself to a speedy kill .Seen many traps set in unsuitable tunnels including those in so called trapping guides .Half inch clearance when sprung is all that us needed to  the underside of the tunnel .Any more results in thrown catches too high on the body ..Some like to bed traps in level  which us fine as long as that inch drop is reflected in the tunnel above .The best trappers realise this and never make do with ill fitting tunnels .

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With a jump trap, the clearance in a tunnel is critical,...and this high powered Fenn will definitely hit its target hard...:yes:

 However, I am not convinced that this is the way forward. I believe we are simply putting off the inevitable...

I originally thought we should stay as we were, perhaps with a slight modification, as regards power, but now,... I am not so sure.:hmm:

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Unfortunately a stronger fenn won't be used as a replacement as the whole issue they have is that the trap strikes from below the stoat, leaving the risk that a leg capture may occur. Any of the replacements will have to strike from above to rectify this. But by the looks of it any replacement looks as though they'll need to be in a self contained shell, so they won't be as versatile as a fenn.

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