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philpot

Barrel burner ????

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I am new to live ammo rifles although I have been shooting shotguns for about 40+ years and air rifles in both Sub 12ft and FAC but now started my new interest with an Anschutz .22 rimmy...................................however the thought of progressing to a .22-250 or .17HMR for longer distance rabbits is something which is in my mind. Having just read another thread on cal choice for foxes, there was some talk about the .22-250 being a barrel burner, could someone explain just what this means please. I should also say that foxes are not on the hit list as my largest permission owners run a 'Hunt' with about 50 hounds so I would not be very popular if I started killing their quarry.

 

Secondly, which cal would you suggest for longer range rabbits ( 100 - 250 mt). I do not want them blowing apart, just killing as I sell them so missing a head is not so nice to hang in the shop :). I am retired so expensive cals are not ideal but happy to start reloading, something I did for years with 12 gauge cartridges.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Phil

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250 mtr's is a long way to shoot rabbits, not saying it can't be done or it's not done. I do occasionally shoot them at that range, but more often than not if they are that far out it's not to difficult to gain another 100 mtr's on them.

Anyway back to the calibre question, I use a .222 with matchking ammunition for head shooting rabbits keep the damage down a little bit, still slightly messy but no centre fire will be as tidy as a .22 rimfire, well I've yet to find one. That's what I use anyway and it also suits me for fox out to the ranges you mention as well as taking long range Crows and Magpies.

Barrel burners are very fast bullets that burn your barrel, heard say maybe 1,000 rds on a 22.250 some less than that and you need a replacement barrel, somebody with more exerience may be able to give a better explination as I have never had a barrel burner, never had the need for one.

Good luck with your choice somebody else will be along shortly with their opinion which will differ to mine, plenty of people have plenty of different preferences when it comes to rifles and what they need from one.

 

ATB.......Del.

 

 

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22-250s were always considered barrel burners due to the high velocity (4000fps) compared to a 222 or 223 at nearer 3000. I've not had one, so can't say if it's true or not, but I suspect it might have got exaggerated a bit over the years.

250m is a hell of a distance to shoot a rabbit. A 17HMR would be good to about 150 but you would need to look at a centrefire for ranges over that. Best to just get closer and use a rimfire as cf ammo is too expensive to use for rabbits on a regular basis, especially if you buy store bought ammo, not to mention doing too much damage. 

As always, this is my personal opinion before we get the usual 17 hornet fans sticking their oar in. :D

 

 

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Who could these people be walshie are they aliens or are they sensible humans got to agree though the hornet smashes them same as 223 17 hmr OK but had too many misfires with ammo not regretting it .

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Just now, polishunter1 said:

Who could these people be walshie are they aliens or are they sensible humans got to agree though the hornet smashes them same as 223 17 hmr OK but had too many misfires with ammo not regretting it .

Never had a HMR and don't intend to. :thumbs:

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Hi Phil

I have a 22.250 and have used it as a pest control gun , the barrel burning comes from 40 grn bullets at 4000 fps for getting the Red Mist effect on small quarry , Used with 55 grn bullets at 3500 fps ish a great long range vermin rifle , targets out to 500 yds in comps very do able . and small deer .

Every rabbit you clip at ranges you can head shoot will be head less and them body shot if having to clear them will be ruined . the bullet weight and velocity on small framed game is only going to end one way .

The .22 of a bipod is a better option or a 25 cal pcp set up properly would be a good bet , I have killed rabbits head shot with a .22 pcp at all rimfire ranges as with all these distances that interest us is wind , 300 yd rabbits with the 22,250 very do able but with 2 mil of wind do you want to wound it ?

Get them out to 100 yds and shoot them with the smaller slower cals and you could head shot them with no damage . a 25 cal with 30 plus grn at 900 fps would be very interesting .

ATB

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Rabbits out to 150yds, lots of them without the hassle of reloading buy a HMR, I use one because I cannot simply be arsed to reload 50-100 rounds at a time, the HMR allows me to use NV and thermal at night with its flat trajectory and range is not a huge issue within reason with it..

Rabbits and fox out to 200yds buy a .22Hornet

Rabbits and Fox out to 300yds buy a .223

Rabbits, Fox, Deer further buy a .243 , better all-round than a .22-250 IMO and fully legal on all species.

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Thank you the relies chaps.

I do use an FX Impact pcp .25, running at 46fpe out to over 90mt and the reason for getting into rimfire was to help with windy conditions or at least that was my idea.

 

I was out last night and tonight and paid particular note of the distances of rabbits seen using an NV rangefinder, over my usual shooting range, the rabbits were between 100 -156mt so my thought of 250mt was a maximum in my head.

 

I was told a .17 HMR would blow a rabbits to to mush Ian so your comment interest me greatly and the fact that it is a cheaper ammo. I am currently using .22 Winchester subs as my learning curve ammo but is there any merit in going to .22HV ammo.

 

Phil

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Anything powerful enough to reach out to 250yds, is going to destroy your rabbits.

At the revised distances of 100-150yds, .22LR HV is easily usable. At a zero of 125 yds using CCI Stingers Bullet data gives 2 inches over at 100yds and 5 inches below at 150yds.

Both of those are manageable drops especially if your ranging accurately and even more so if you can use the scope turrets properly. If you don't already use the compensation turrets, now is probably a good time to learn. Elliot on here is somewhat of a master.

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1 hour ago, Alsone said:

Anything powerful enough to reach out to 250yds, is going to destroy your rabbits.

At the revised distances of 100-150yds, .22LR HV is easily usable. At a zero of 125 yds using CCI Stingers Bullet data gives 2 inches over at 100yds and 5 inches below at 150yds.

Both of those are manageable drops especially if your ranging accurately and even more so if you can use the scope turrets properly. If you don't already use the compensation turrets, now is probably a good time to learn. Elliot on here is somewhat of a master.

Thank you for that Alsone, very interesting.

I use MTC Mamba Lites on all my air rifles both fac and sub 12 and now on the rimmy but perhaps this situation needs reviewing as my NV set up is a NiteSite Viper with an extra IR to cover 100mt +. This is not working out so well on the Anschutz rimmy and I either have to fit a longer scope or look to a dedicated NV sight when pension allows. 

I only use mildot holdover method and if I am totally honest, I am not sure how the turret compensation method works. Is this the same as the MTC Viper pro method shown here.

http://mtcoptics.com/viper-pro/

I am open to any idea, after all, this type of rifle is new to me so perhaps I need to change my way of doing things.

 

Phil

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You don't say how your covering your ground Phil , Could you sit in a hid / vehicle this would give you a stable platform to shoot from , If you go this this method you could put small markers to help with the ranging and also put you in a position to work with wind direction so with zero wind influence it would be one less thing to worry about .

I shot a lot with a 6.5 Photon this went between three rifles so may be you will have to concider setting up a rifle for night shooting there are complete kits being sold for £300 one now on the Stalking forum as people move on .  Or there are scope add on's that would let you use the day scope and its recticle .

Concider having a look on chairgun and seeing what zero suits you and think about working with the magnification on the scope as this alters the value of your Mils in the recticle , I can't see you dialing for shots in the dark so finding a suitable zero  will work better .

Your .25 are you using 25gn pellets if you could run them at 900 fps this would give you a cheap night rifle and not far of the rimfire plus not knocking the rabbits about .  

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3 hours ago, Outback 1 said:

You don't say how your covering your ground Phil , Could you sit in a hid / vehicle this would give you a stable platform to shoot from , If you go this this method you could put small markers to help with the ranging and also put you in a position to work with wind direction so with zero wind influence it would be one less thing to worry about .

I shot a lot with a 6.5 Photon this went between three rifles so may be you will have to concider setting up a rifle for night shooting there are complete kits being sold for £300 one now on the Stalking forum as people move on .  Or there are scope add on's that would let you use the day scope and its recticle .

Concider having a look on chairgun and seeing what zero suits you and think about working with the magnification on the scope as this alters the value of your Mils in the recticle , I can't see you dialing for shots in the dark so finding a suitable zero  will work better .

Your .25 are you using 25gn pellets if you could run them at 900 fps this would give you a cheap night rifle and not far of the rimfire plus not knocking the rabbits about .  

Good points Outback.

 

My .25 fac air rifle is using 25.4gr pellets pushing a touch under 900fps but that little Impact is a £1700 gun and used day and night but I think you are right in the respect that one of them is to become a 'night gun' and to be honest the rimmy was bought for rabbiting so it is likely to be the night gun.

I normally shoot in daylight a 6x mag and at night scan in at 3x then zoom up to 6x but I do find the NiteSite loses so much light at 6x that sometimes I take the shot at 3x. This aspect of the NiteSite is bloody annoying but I have no comparison with other NV systems so I don't know if this is a common issue. If I could afford one, I would have the ATN-X sight for the rimmy although I have heard it is not quite as good as a Photon at night but far better in daylight...........................Round and round we go.

we shoot from hides, the car driving around the estate and also walked up. A lot depends on the actual area on the farms we are working and I always shoot from a Trigger Stick Tripod for that stability unless of course I am shooting from inside the car in which case the gun is rested on the car door frame. 

 

Phil

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16 minutes ago, philpot said:

Good points Outback.

 

My .25 fac air rifle is using 25.4gr pellets pushing a touch under 900fps but that little Impact is a £1700 gun and used day and night but I think you are right in the respect that one of them is to become a 'night gun' and to be honest the rimmy was bought for rabbiting so it is likely to be the night gun.

I normally shoot in daylight a 6x mag and at night scan in at 3x then zoom up to 6x but I do find the NiteSite loses so much light at 6x that sometimes I take the shot at 3x. This aspect of the NiteSite is bloody annoying but I have no comparison with other NV systems so I don't know if this is a common issue. If I could afford one, I would have the ATN-X sight for the rimmy although I have heard it is not quite as good as a Photon at night but far better in daylight...........................Round and round we go.

we shoot from hides, the car driving around the estate and also walked up. A lot depends on the actual area on the farms we are working and I always shoot from a Trigger Stick Tripod for that stability unless of course I am shooting from inside the car in which case the gun is rested on the car door frame. 

 

Phil

The ATN X-Site units are crap, laggy with NV, eat batteries, and have rubbish mounts.. 

100% keep your existing day scope, buy a Ward 700/800 and get a decent IR torch, for your job something like a solaris, job done..

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Thanks Ian...........................to the point and sound advice. One of our other members, Villaman also suggested the Ward to me some time back. Only heard good things about them. I would love to try one because the add on systems such as the ward are sold as a bolt on when needed for night work but surely the the eye piece is so far back, you would need to change position of the scope in order to mount the gun correctly, I have never been able to get my head around that unless of course it is left on and used for night shooting only.

 

Phil

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Keep a look on the Stalking Directory there is a full set up 6.5 Photon and a Ward set up has just gone .

The .25 with a 65 yd zero would be very interesting about 2 Mil at a 100 yds ,   

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