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#1 kyboy44

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 06:10 pm

Ok this is not so much a question on dogs for deer but on other game I found a Facebook group for people that use gwp and gsp in Australia and seen that some of the guys use the same dog they use for deer they also used them for fox and rabbits but they all use a set of training videos called deer dog bule prints that costs about 450$ so I was wondering if anyone has used different traning books or videos and have taken different game

#2 Tyla

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:21 am

My lurcher had a range of jobs, ferreting, lamping, bushing etc before I started using her for stalking at 6. She took to it like a duck to water and now also blood trails to a good enough standard. She still does everything she used to do as well.
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#3 kyboy44

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 11:46 am

Have you ever used her for staking fox I was wondering because I met a few guys that doine it but I don't know if it was because of their special traning video or not

#4 Tyla

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:25 pm

No. I don't really shoot foxes unless I have to.

#5 fursty

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:26 pm

My lurcher had a range of jobs, ferreting, lamping, bushing etc before I started using her for stalking at 6. She took to it like a duck to water and now also blood trails to a good enough standard. She still does everything she used to do as well.


Tyla, did you do any training with your lurcher before she went stalking with you? Steadyness to deer; was that already in place? Had she been out around guns before etc. I have a 4 year old lurcher who is a rabbiting (lamping) companion, would like to have her along when I'm stalking so interested in how you went about it with yours. Did you wait till she was 6 because you felt she wasn't ready/steady enough until then?

#6 Tyla

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:17 pm

To be honest it happened by accident. Originally she was never meant to be steady to deer and wasn't. Things changed and I moved into a different place where that wasn't an option. I did alot of training to steady her up and then just started taking her with me. She's been out with a rifle for rabbits since a pup so knew the score with regards walking at heel and not running to shot. She stays at close when stalking and I keep an eye on her, she indicates if there are deer and I act accordingly. She is steady stalking or sat out at ground level. I've not tried her below a seat though.
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#7 terryd

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:36 pm

I like that blue print loads of stuff that makes sense and can be used with any dog and so much of it rings true with my experiences of my dog. Normally what not too do  :laugh:

He has done a good job  :thumbs:



#8 3175darren

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 09:20 pm

This is a subject that generates opinions, from all corners, it is without doubt to me any dog you can steady to close heal work,will with little effort stalk, when I say this it needs to be space aware when walking, as when you step side ways it does also, I have experimented several times, any dog that will stalk deer, will stalk fox, rabbits, anything really this pointer would stalk anything, if I went with a rifle he went into stalking mode he also loved wildfowling
Attached File  F0F6A0AF-CDB5-4FB4-B8CB-F11D8FA0F495.jpeg   263.62KB   0 downloads
this lurcher was too keen to stalk over, for deer but absolutely red hot on a bloob scent,

Attached File  02FBF987-2484-43DE-A071-9B3CE0EE96C2.jpeg   110.75KB   2 downloadsThis teckle was a dream to stalk with less exciting than the pointer, but would sit under a high seat in bitterly cruel temp, and never twine, she could really stand the cold, and blood wise red hot at following blood scent

Attached File  B310ACDB-BE44-4700-803E-15BDEBDDA1BE.jpeg   251.12KB   0 downloads
This jack Russel was a gift dog, I decided to put him on blood this yr, and I will be honest, for a dog that cost me nothing, hes been spot on, I have said many times on here, any dog will blood scent with the right direction, and the myth that only big expensive wire haired pointers can do it is rubbish, they are good,but its people warranting there price tag in my opinion, I have seen some very good labs that will do anything,
Attached File  14F5970A-BAEA-4EE3-9BDD-76F984200571.jpeg   153.52KB   1 downloadsfor stalking its the close quarter control, heal work, and silent commands that make the difference,some dogs have a naturally quiet temperament, and hook onto hand signals better than others, they are the easiest to stalk over,

Edited by 3175darren, 29 September 2017 - 09:24 pm.

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#9 Hydropotesinermis

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 09:32 pm

This is a subject that generates opinions, from all corners, it is without doubt to me any dog you can steady to close heal work,will with little effort stalk, when I say this it needs to be space aware when walking, as when you step side ways it does also, I have experimented several times, any dog that will stalk deer, will stalk fox, rabbits, anything really this pointer would stalk anything, if I went with a rifle he went into stalking mode he also loved wildfowling
F0F6A0AF-CDB5-4FB4-B8CB-F11D8FA0F495.jpeg
this lurcher was too keen to stalk over, for deer but absolutely red hot on a bloob scent,

02FBF987-2484-43DE-A071-9B3CE0EE96C2.jpegThis teckle was a dream to stalk with less exciting than the pointer, but would sit under a high seat in bitterly cruel temp, and never twine, she could really stand the cold, and blood wise red hot at following blood scent

B310ACDB-BE44-4700-803E-15BDEBDDA1BE.jpeg
This jack Russel was a gift dog, I decided to put him on blood this yr, and I will be honest, for a dog that cost me nothing, hes been spot on, I have said many times on here, any dog will blood scent with the right direction, and the myth that only big expensive wire haired pointers can do it is rubbish, they are good,but its people warranting there price tag in my opinion, I have seen some very good labs that will do anything,
14F5970A-BAEA-4EE3-9BDD-76F984200571.jpegfor stalking its the close quarter control, heal work, and silent commands that make the difference,some dogs have a naturally quiet temperament, and hook onto hand signals better than others, they are the easiest to stalk over,


Good post.

#10 3175darren

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 09:43 pm

This is a subject that generates opinions, from all corners, it is without doubt to me any dog you can steady to close heal work,will with little effort stalk, when I say this it needs to be space aware when walking, as when you step side ways it does also, I have experimented several times, any dog that will stalk deer, will stalk fox, rabbits, anything really this pointer would stalk anything, if I went with a rifle he went into stalking mode he also loved wildfowlingF0F6A0AF-CDB5-4FB4-B8CB-F11D8FA0F495.jpeg
this lurcher was too keen to stalk over, for deer but absolutely red hot on a bloob scent,02FBF987-2484-43DE-A071-9B3CE0EE96C2.jpegThis teckle was a dream to stalk with less exciting than the pointer, but would sit under a high seat in bitterly cruel temp, and never twine, she could really stand the cold, and blood wise red hot at following blood scentB310ACDB-BE44-4700-803E-15BDEBDDA1BE.jpeg
This jack Russel was a gift dog, I decided to put him on blood this yr, and I will be honest, for a dog that cost me nothing, hes been spot on, I have said many times on here, any dog will blood scent with the right direction, and the myth that only big expensive wire haired pointers can do it is rubbish, they are good,but its people warranting there price tag in my opinion, I have seen some very good labs that will do anything,14F5970A-BAEA-4EE3-9BDD-76F984200571.jpegfor stalking its the close quarter control, heal work, and silent commands that make the difference,some dogs have a naturally quiet temperament, and hook onto hand signals better than others, they are the easiest to stalk over,


Good post.
cheers,

#11 Tyla

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 07:38 am

Really interesting post Darren. I love the silent communication you get between you and the dog. She watches me as much as I watch her and if I freeze or drop down she'll do the same. She also tucks in behind me if I'm stalking into something and uses me as cover, I never taught her that she just started doing it. It's handy as she is pale coloured so stands out in a dark wood
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#12 3175darren

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 08:36 am

Really interesting post Darren. I love the silent communication you get between you and the dog. She watches me as much as I watch her and if I freeze or drop down she'll do the same. She also tucks in behind me if I'm stalking into something and uses me as cover, I never taught her that she just started doing it. It's handy as she is pale coloured so stands out in a dark wood

Thats the beauty of stalking over a dog it's more personal, they are brilliant company, I have spent hours and hours stalking with a dog, and I can say I have enjoyed every one, all my stalking dogs have been good hands at other game but I did emphasise the stalking discipline, the rest looked after itself, Labrador's are fantastic dogs for stalking with, I had a black lab here last yr to train and bring on for a few month for a mate, it was superb with hand signal's, he brought it up for start of the duck season, and introduction to feather/ game, the lad had clearly put good work into finishing it, and not run around tooting a 2/11B whistle till it was tone deaf, that dog would be a superb stalking dog, we tried it on some frozen roe blood I keep, from a kill, it took to it straight away, he's up in a month or so and I hope to take him for a Doe stalk with his dog, and that has got me thinking of a new lab,the old lad I have is slowly going down hill, enjoy your dog,make the most of it, she will learn around you, once they take to the stalk, they don't look back,

#13 samphire

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:29 pm

Some good info in the posts above the comets on silent communication between the hunter and dog  ring very true to me, far from a dog expert of any standard 40 years of usually three often four working dogs at any one time, i have gained some experience but still got a hell of a lot more to learn.

  Dog for deer way i look at it come in debatable two types companion dogs these work at trail you work together tight dog may notice something you have not you being aware of the dog observing it all the time can feed you back valuable info time spent with the dog among deer hunting or not is never wasted time you will learn together soon spot any reactions the dog has to locating deer being in tune with the dog is all part of bonding and from a pup more you have them with you the better use a lead if you have to early days its annoying but pays off and never rush anything getting the dog rock steady obedient is essential if you want to make an efficient team.

    companion dog prime use is location finding shot deer in woodland and scrub, breed type is quite open to personal preference for this i use Labradors because i have them usually at least one and  time as shown me they do ok at this task but Springers cockers other breeds could do just as well if they prove suitable.

  The second type of deer dog a hunter locator as i call it has a more prominent proactive role than the other. as i see it they works with you but in cover of woodland works just a few yards in front i take the info he feeds back to me and act on it springers in my experience allthough they like to lead i myself have never gotten one to interact with me and instill the confidence all i have had have had too much drive too much lets crak on in their make up to make me use them for the task, could be if you get a steady rock steady springer you could do fine with it, i mentioned this to an old stalker in the Borders who agreed with my observations and said he once saw a Clumber spaniel that was incredible on deer , i have never seen a clumber myself but thought i would mention it here.

   Breed i have found works as a hunter vlocator is German short haired pointers but wire hairs or other HPRs will be just as good if not better.

  The way these breeds air scent i feel is an advantage use as convinced me of this and the GSPs at least are very simple to control i find in these situations with lots of inbuilt natural ability that shows up in the field.

 Watching the dog as it moves in front you can soon learn to spot changes in his attitude reactions to things i have on more than one occasion been in a situation where i get to witness his reaction yet because  my line of sight is not obstructed by cover i can see the deer that is making him react some distance away,, this for me all adds to the hunt and i get a huge ammount of enjoyment from working a dog like this , i am on GSP 4 now this one is 4 years old and although not the easiest one i have trained he has more drive and is steadily improving all the time, we as a team never stop learning and having a dog experienced at hunting locating and pointing deer is satisfying for both of us.

  Finaly it must be clear from my text i do not want to promote one breed more than another regardless of my experiences, i am sure there are many other breeds that will suffice even excel at being deer dogs i just mentioned what i use thats all.

  Whatever your dog is i think these are a few choice words . Bond control steady to game observe  get out together. Regularly . look and learn. and my favourate TRUST he got to trust you you trust him if it seems totaly wrong but he is adamant its in there go look you could just LEARN something and get a result. remember you reap what you sow in any relationship.


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#14 fursty

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 01:33 pm

To be honest it happened by accident. Originally she was never meant to be steady to deer and wasn't. Things changed and I moved into a different place where that wasn't an option. I did alot of training to steady her up and then just started taking her with me. She's been out with a rifle for rabbits since a pup so knew the score with regards walking at heel and not running to shot. She stays at close when stalking and I keep an eye on her, she indicates if there are deer and I act accordingly. She is steady stalking or sat out at ground level. I've not tried her below a seat though.


Thanks Tyla. This is a very interesting thread. I'm really keen to try with my lurcher, I hate going out with the rifle and leaving her at home but just ow she's not steady to deer so it wouldn't work to take her stalking. I've toyed with the idea of clipping a lead to a belt but the safety implications if she was to bolt at the wrong moment just don't bear thinking about. You say you did a lot of training to steady her up- would you care to share some tips or ideas about what specifically that involved? I know every dog is different, but an idea of what worked for you would be very helpful. I guess taking her out with a rifle rabbiting would be a start, even an air rifle, just to get her used to the idea of not running forward as soon as she sees game. Four years as a lamping/rabbiting dog might mean its a lot to ask her to in-learn, when all I've wanted her to do so far is go as soon as a rabbit is sighted. But she's clever, if a little slow to learn, so I am hopeful we may get there eventually. Cheers.

#15 Tyla

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 02:43 pm

Mine was 6 when she started so no reason yours shouldn't be able to. Teaching steadiness was hard and I'm still very aware of her behaviour as there's nothing she'd like more than to go back to the old days! Habituation was how I did it, getting out amongst deer alot. On lead to start, then at heel and finally loose. I had an advantage there as I pretty much live in a deer park, hence the change of tack. Getting bout with the rifle on rabbits is a good start though
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