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Dodgy Saluki Temperament.


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#31 C.green

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:07 pm

I'll say this; patience has a finite limit. For everyone it's different and I don't mind admitting mine is coming to breaking point. I'm seriously considering a collar. For me to say that means in my head, I've failed. Nowt wrong with failing, it's continuing in the right manner and finding the solution that works ;)


Ive got a dog whos mother is well bred coursing stuff when he winges and whines its a sign he needs abit of stick hunting. Start throwing some work at him i bet you see a difference.

#32 Phil Lloyd

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:09 pm

:hmm: Training Collars can be like life-saving scalpels, in the hands of skillful surgeons,..but in uneducated hands, they are worse than fecking useless,..nothing more than blunt tools. It is easy to dominate a canine and possibly feck him right up, with a mixture of fear and pain, but far harder to understand, what really makes him tick  :thumbs: 


Edited by Phil Lloyd, 22 September 2017 - 10:49 pm.

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#33 mushroom

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:21 pm

Oh I know what makes the cnut tick lol

It's whatever he wants to do ;)

He just does not switch off. The collar is only for recall, not whining. Christ I'd be zapping the cnut every 10 seconds 😂

#34 Saluki71

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:23 pm

I've never had a problem with recall with pures or crosses, it depends on the person training or as I say with a saluki how much patience one has because that's what one needs with any animal and sadly some people want perfection without putting any time in.
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#35 jiggy

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:28 pm

The death of any working dog is the introduction of friendliness, the further away you beeed from purpose , the more kinks you throw into the works

A well worked dog will align with its owner if he knows what's he's about, rearing right and working well promote social behaviour, it's how evolution works

The theory sounds good but could you tame a wolf. Some breeds just tend to throw back problems in certain areas. Without doubt the better dogmen and trainers will get the best out of the breed that is possible to get but too fob it off as down to the owner all the time doesn't wash. I'm not just talking about Salukis here but all breeds in general. Patterdales don't make good herding dogs , herding dogs can sometimes be too intelligent for their own good, wheatens and their crosses tend to be dog aggressive, Salukis tend to work for themselves. All these are natural tendencies in the breeds but there is exceptions of course. Sometimes if it just comes natural to the breed it makes life easier on the owner. Like retrieving duck with a Labrador for example, if it makes it look easy then why not?Does it make them a bad owner because they don't want to do a psychoanalysis every time a dog isn't pulling its weight in any given task. Best of luck to anybody who wants to prove a point with a particular breed but usually it's their breed of choice and they will pile criticism on other breeds no problem if it's not their chosen one. It's best let saluki owners run down bullcrosses and vice versa. It makes it a less boring world.

#36 Dead Eyes

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:53 pm


This is up and running and doing what it does very well, so I've been told

I'm just going to build a bond and give him a try. Hopefully be ok but he's well bred and performing well so we'll see

He ticks all the boxes for me though, so I'm quite excited as it goes

 
Good luck with him and fair play for giving him a second chance. I`m sure if you put enough gear in front of him you`ll reap the rewards.

Well supposedly he's a 5/5 on the lamp dog when fit so I've got a funny feeling he'll teach me a hell of a lot, sounds like a bloody fair exchange from my point of view

#37 ginger beard

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 11:21 pm

i've got a heavy saluki saturated bitch here.recall,retrieve and stock breaking all spot on.never heard her whine.the problem i had (i've learnt to live with it now) is if something upsets her she won't work.not even a rabbit 20yds away and she's off the slip.

something so insignificant will totally stop her,other times nothing will stop her.

had her one day caught up in barbed wire with only 1 foot on the ground.rushed down in a panic,got her off and it was as nothing happened.

weird,never again



#38 two crows

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 07:24 am

I have had saluki crosses for many years and used them for coursing hares, lamping rabbits, and general mooching about, but only because hares were my main interest so the dog of choice for that had to do it all. if rabbit work was my top priority I would get a rabbiting dog off proven rabbiting parents simple as that, I only ever had one dog with bad recall or none at all realy he was a found dog he stayed couse the kids liked him he was as nice as pie in all other ways and a good killer but when he missed that was game over so he ended up a pet.



#39 Casso

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 12:17 pm

The death of any working dog is the introduction of friendliness, the further away you beeed from purpose , the more kinks you throw into the works
A well worked dog will align with its owner if he knows what's he's about, rearing right and working well promote social behaviour, it's how evolution works

The theory sounds good but could you tame a wolf. Some breeds just tend to throw back problems in certain areas. Without doubt the better dogmen and trainers will get the best out of the breed that is possible to get but too fob it off as down to the owner all the time doesn't wash. I'm not just talking about Salukis here but all breeds in general. Patterdales don't make good herding dogs , herding dogs can sometimes be too intelligent for their own good, wheatens and their crosses tend to be dog aggressive, Salukis tend to work for themselves. All these are natural tendencies in the breeds but there is exceptions of course. Sometimes if it just comes natural to the breed it makes life easier on the owner. Like retrieving duck with a Labrador for example, if it makes it look easy then why not?Does it make them a bad owner because they don't want to do a psychoanalysis every time a dog isn't pulling its weight in any given task. Best of luck to anybody who wants to prove a point with a particular breed but usually it's their breed of choice and they will pile criticism on other breeds no problem if it's not their chosen one. It's best let saluki owners run down bullcrosses and vice versa. It makes it a less boring world.

I can understand the frustration in the saluki debate bud but modern canine behaviour knowledge is based around dogs thinking whereas primitive breeds go more by how something Feels ie gut reaction in the immediate moment

We don't tame a cat through dominance, ask yourself why not , ?
Because in short order it would f**k off and never bother with us again , it's simple for the cat if you offer it too much resistance by disciplining it in your space , it just don't bother with that space again Its not personal its instinctive ,

Like a cat the Salukis tuned to a very slight prey vibration, slight movements , flickers in the grass , small frequency movements none of which involve any inclusion from the owner, it responds immediately to Prey Instinct as opposed to prey drive or survival instincts ,

Prey instinctive behaviour , as it says has no inclusion from owner , the clue is in the Instinct part , that's how it functions like most animals on this planet, like our so called close neighbour the apes which if you stuck your arm into its cage without warning would probably rip it off at the elbow ,instincts are how animals function

What is it about herding breeds that can choose social over instinct , prey drive over prey instinct and survival instinct ,

Herding breeds have a larger emotional capacity , if we stand back for a minute and appreciate the problem a working collie has we can understand what's involved, the dog has to hold onto a feeling for both Shepard and sheep , take instruction while high in drive and hold back instinctive behaviour which make it want to run in and kill a sheep , it prefares the slow release of energy while holding onto a feeling for its environment , it's a huge capacity for an animal

On the other hand the primitive saluki is bred to respond to prey instinct only but ,, through expressing prey instinct the dog is figuring out patterns of movement , this leads to that and that leads to work, social follows whatever form the hunt takes , the hunt is what makes the pack not the other way round

Saluki are capable of great feats of prey making It tunes into the prey vibration and goes by feel, it can sit back and read its quarry enjoying every twist and turn , sometimes just enjoying the feeling of movement along side its target , which is just what the herding breeds are doing , enjoy the connection, same as the saluki who is feeling what the hare is feeling and enjoying the ride

The real differences between breeds are their capacity to hold to a feeling , the ability to absorb the movement of shepherd and sheep which may contain 100 animals or more and not break into instinctive patterns is what seals it ,

Different breeds are born with different holding capacity , primitive breeds less so they just are more likely to revert to instinct , every owner has a large predatory vibration which can swamp a dog based solely to focus on smaller vibrations , hares / rabbits , the long and the short of it is , if owner payed more attention to the energy he/ she is putting out the more chilled out the dog would become

I have come to the conclusion the more we focus on training and modifying behaviour the less we grasp what's really going on in the dog and what's really going on is the animal is going by feel,
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#40 C.green

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 12:35 pm

I wonder if anyone can anser me why me dog does this. Anythjng he catches unless its far away he will kill spit it out and walk away or sonetimes stand about ten yards away with it in his mouth. Yet you shoot something hebwill fetch it back lovely anybody got any opinions on why it does it ?

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#41 jiggy

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 01:11 pm

The death of any working dog is the introduction of friendliness, the further away you beeed from purpose , the more kinks you throw into the works
A well worked dog will align with its owner if he knows what's he's about, rearing right and working well promote social behaviour, it's how evolution works

The theory sounds good but could you tame a wolf. Some breeds just tend to throw back problems in certain areas. Without doubt the better dogmen and trainers will get the best out of the breed that is possible to get but too fob it off as down to the owner all the time doesn't wash. I'm not just talking about Salukis here but all breeds in general. Patterdales don't make good herding dogs , herding dogs can sometimes be too intelligent for their own good, wheatens and their crosses tend to be dog aggressive, Salukis tend to work for themselves. All these are natural tendencies in the breeds but there is exceptions of course. Sometimes if it just comes natural to the breed it makes life easier on the owner. Like retrieving duck with a Labrador for example, if it makes it look easy then why not?Does it make them a bad owner because they don't want to do a psychoanalysis every time a dog isn't pulling its weight in any given task. Best of luck to anybody who wants to prove a point with a particular breed but usually it's their breed of choice and they will pile criticism on other breeds no problem if it's not their chosen one. It's best let saluki owners run down bullcrosses and vice versa. It makes it a less boring world.
I can understand the frustration in the saluki debate bud but modern canine behaviour knowledge is based around dogs thinking whereas primitive breeds go more by how something Feels ie gut reaction in the immediate moment

We don't tame a cat through dominance, ask yourself why not , ?
Because in short order it would f**k off and never bother with us again , it's simple for the cat if you offer it too much resistance by disciplining it in your space , it just don't bother with that space again Its not personal its instinctive ,

Like a cat the Salukis tuned to a very slight prey vibration, slight movements , flickers in the grass , small frequency movements none of which involve any inclusion from the owner, it responds immediately to Prey Instinct as opposed to prey drive or survival instincts ,

Prey instinctive behaviour , as it says has no inclusion from owner , the clue is in the Instinct part , that's how it functions like most animals on this planet, like our so called close neighbour the apes which if you stuck your arm into its cage without warning would probably rip it off at the elbow ,instincts are how animals function

What is it about herding breeds that can choose social over instinct , prey drive over prey instinct and survival instinct ,

Herding breeds have a larger emotional capacity , if we stand back for a minute and appreciate the problem a working collie has we can understand what's involved, the dog has to hold onto a feeling for both Shepard and sheep , take instruction while high in drive and hold back instinctive behaviour which make it want to run in and kill a sheep , it prefares the slow release of energy while holding onto a feeling for its environment , it's a huge capacity for an animal

On the other hand the primitive saluki is bred to respond to prey instinct only but ,, through expressing prey instinct the dog is figuring out patterns of movement , this leads to that and that leads to work, social follows whatever form the hunt takes , the hunt is what makes the pack not the other way round

Saluki are capable of great feats of prey making It tunes into the prey vibration and goes by feel, it can sit back and read its quarry enjoying every twist and turn , sometimes just enjoying the feeling of movement along side its target , which is just what the herding breeds are doing , enjoy the connection, same as the saluki who is feeling what the hare is feeling and enjoying the ride

The real differences between breeds are their capacity to hold to a feeling , the ability to absorb the movement of shepherd and sheep which may contain 100 animals or more and not break into instinctive patterns is what seals it ,

Different breeds are born with different holding capacity , primitive breeds less so they just are more likely to revert to instinct , every owner has a large predatory vibration which can swamp a dog based solely to focus on smaller vibrations , hares / rabbits , the long and the short of it is , if owner payed more attention to the energy he/ she is putting out the more chilled out the dog would become

I have come to the conclusion the more we focus on training and modifying behaviour the less we grasp what's really going on in the dog and what's really going on is the animal is going by feel,
I agree with what you say, especially the part where they are more like cats than dogs in behaviour. My point is it's ok to dislike cats and not try to get one to walk to heal. If they are not suited to somebodies liking they should get a spaniel.I like loyalty in a dog it feels more like a companionship when he comes back to your hand looking for an affectionate pat on the head even if it's after fcuking up. Some people will take advice then do the exact opposite it's human nature so rather than try convince them how to do it in the first place maybe it would be better to convince them to stay clear of certain breeds. Dog pounds wouldn't be over flowing with wasted dogs if this was the case.The same goes for bull breeds that people think they need to have but don't know what to do when things go wrong. This doesn't take away from any particular dogs attributes in the field but sometimes even if the catch rate is lower with a different breed then it could be worth it for an easier less complicated life.

#42 juckler123

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:17 pm

Another idiot who has never owned or worked a pure what world am I in FFS you lot do my head in

#43 juckler123

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:19 pm

All down to the man behind the dogs not the dogs

#44 jiggy

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 03:42 pm

Another idiot who has never owned or worked a pure what world am I in FFS you lot do my head in

maybe I misunderstand the breed because around here they are only ever used as an excuse to get in close to farmers sheds to see what he has in them. I think these types don't do the dogs justice. Now I'm sure you would agree that these lads shouldn't have them. If you can get the best out of them then crack on there is not many genuine lads left.

#45 juckler123

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:39 pm

That's doing the genuine lads so good you saying shit like that
Saluqis in the right hands are just running dogs I've seen wilder X's in the wrong hands it IS NOT about breeding it's about the man behind the dog and please don't feed the Antis with they all rob bollocks


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