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Questions I Asked Countryside Alliance Today.


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To make my position clear, this will be my final post on the subjects that have been raised on THL .


The past cannot be re written , the Hunting Act 2004 is in the here and now .



When the issue of a club was raised, sometime back, it was taken to e mails only as things were degenerating via THL , I was part of that and I have kept all the e mails.



After some heated exchanges on the open forum, and after Skycat and Trench had a meeting with Tim Bonner , I had spoken with the two of them as Alan Tyer was away, I was NOT about to advertise that fact on an open forum, I had promised Skycat and Trench I would speak with Alan on his return, about a meeting to be held between all of us .I did, and the outcome was 'not at this time' this was based on the fact that some meddling individuals some past and present, had reduced the whole saga into utter chaos and a total disrespect of the work Alan had done during the drafting of the present Hunting Act. I have the reams of documents here.



There were pages after pages to go through, on the steering group thread ( or something similar , and I believe that Trench and myself could see where it had all gone horribly wrong.


Sadly last year Alan, s health took a turn for the worse , and he stood down as the Chair of the AWL , leaving me as acting Chair , I have tried to find a new chair for the Club everywhere. No one seems willing to sacrifice *SELF * for the greater good. that alone has been a challenge . So please have some patients.



This is a democratic club and members are consulted on all decisions .


So I find myself as the Chair , for now .



I have taken all that You have thrown at me, and never once have I lost my integrity , the ideas that some of You have put out have been helpful , some are to say the very least outlandish, and quite bizzarre!



But the moment You start swearing You lost.




In this first few months I have learned that one needs backbone and the ability to strive to do ones best . Backbone I have plenty of , strength too, and I am not about to be set upon by some bully boys, who think it is OK to be just that.


My Soul aim is to take the club forward and restore the Lurchers good name, while still seeking the get this crazy Hunting Act repealed .



This is all new to me , and I may struggle at times, and when I am lost I seek help from those who have held such positions for a long time.



Thank Goodness THL is a small fraction of the Lurcher World and a bunch of key board warriors to boot.






I will reach the wider audience as soon as I am able , while spinning a lot of plates .



One thing I do not have is an ego , nor will ever hope to have!



So please stop dragging up the past, its done, over finished, get out and enjoy what's around You, with Your dogs ,and watch Spring in all its glory , let the wildlife replenish and reflect on Your actions.



This is an open forum to be read by any one, antis Police etc.


Try some positive thinking.


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Was it   Why don't you fuk off you scruffy ,lurcher owning oik ,we don't want to associate with your type Yours sincerely, Double barrel chinless twat .esq

I hunted these lands as a child and as a Student I then left the Country to follow my chosen career. In the Twighlight years of my life I returned to the UK for one of my Childrens professional stud

Unity has never been a strong point when it comes to hunting with dogs in general,the red coated horse back hunting enthusiasts,the footpack followers of hounds were & never likely are to unite wi

Alas the past will always be present and I saw no heroes there but I see no bullying now, rather people asking genuine questions. I personally used the forum in a methodical way to publicise my thoughts and ideas to ensure a reaction and it was successful but. But you need to start to communicate with lurcher owners without having to be cornered, even when they are not one of your chosen few. After all was it not yourselves that put you up there to be representatives? And if you think you have the right to pop in and out at a whim with years between actions then you are doing the lurcher world a disservice.

 

The most basic things like you wanted a new chairman "you looked everywhere" does that mean you asked people you knew. Did it not occur to you to put this out to the thousands of working lurcher owners that you don’t personally know?? Can a new chairman only be one of your friends?

 

And you had a private meeting two years ago that led to a change of mind, why did you not step up and say so at the time?

 

Others may have been willing to take up the role and things may have moved forward over the intervening time, as I have stated people were willing to start local efforts which could have been the building blocks of the future. Going back behind closed doors is not the future, openness is.

 

I have no antipathy to you personally and actively tried to open communication at the time and even today have I’ve given you answer to your two biggest hurdles, finances and low membership numbers, all you had to do was ask for people to see what they could do, encourage to share to lurcher facebook pages… every journey must start with a single step, it’s just talking to people.

 

I hope I’m wrong and there can be a better future but alas I fear ever the problem with an oligarchy, the leaders and their own clique cling to control, with the attitude that the hoi polloi need only be given snippets of information at the leader’s behest. This works for small clubs where the odd “individualist” can be cold shouldered out and the close knit group maintain power but with a bigger club that depends on the actions of its members there need to be a more open structure and a good form of communication.. I would like to be proven wrong

 

Alas if you want the public to be involved then you need to communicate! For two years virtually nothing on their own topic on here demonstrates this, so posting that this is the last you will speak on the subject is the most counterproductive thing you can do.

 

regards nigel

 

 

Ps think it’s bullying on here wait till the antis start…hope to god people like me are about to counter them.

Edited by sandymere
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Anyone who has taken the time to comment on this thread is obviously passionate about hunting with Lurchers. There has been some great ideas raised here but the one thing missing is unity. Surely it would be a good time to stop the bullshit and all pull together. A lot of comments have been made about The Fox Hunting community and how they are treated differently to the people who work Lurchers. One reason iIMO is because they all sing off the same hymn sheet. Its not about egos or proving a point it's about trying to repeal this shitty ban. Wether it's called the LAGB or the AwL does it really matter.

Anyone who has taken the time to comment on this thread is obviously passionate about hunting with Lurchers. There has been some great ideas raised here but the one thing missing is unity. Surely it would be a good time to stop the bullshit and all pull together. A lot of comments have been made about The Fox Hunting community and how they are treated differently to the people who work Lurchers. One reason iIMO is because they all sing off the same hymn sheet. Its not about egos or proving a point it's about trying to repeal this shitty ban. Wether it's called the LAGB or the AwL does it really matter.

Anyone who has taken the time to comment on this thread is obviously passionate about hunting with Lurchers. There has been some great ideas raised here but the one thing missing is unity. Surely it would be a good time to stop the bullshit and all pull together. A lot of comments have been made about The Fox Hunting community and how they are treated differently to the people who work Lurchers. One reason iIMO is because they all sing off the same hymn sheet. Its not about egos or proving a point it's about trying to repeal this shitty ban. Wether it's called the LAGB or the AwL does it really matter.

Oh but it does matter, what's the point in bunging the CA, AWL, LBGT and the rest a tenner a year to do nothing for you? Im a member of BASC because I shoot and I get the insurance with it. Other than that it's run by people from a different class, may as well be a different planet. They look out for deer stalking, pheasant shooting (which luckily covers the common rough shooter under the same umberella) but the rest of us oiks are looked down upon and always have been. How many of us Lurcher and Terriermen marched on London back in the day? I reckon it was fifty fifty with the poshuns yet as soon as the Hunts had their fudge (and let's remember that Blair didn't want a ban but hunts continuing with some controls which is what he got by the back or side door) Hare coursing got offered as a sacrifice and the rest is history.

The Lurcher man and the terrier man were never ever considered, we have always been looked down on as poaching p***y scum (personally I'm proud to be poaching p***y scum) by not only the Police but the politicians and more importantly by nearly everyone else that shoots deer, pheasants, Partridge ect. We are dealing with class war pure and simple. To give an example a neighbour recently got burgled whilst on holiday, neighbour called old bill whilst burglary was in progress, no coppers showed, at all. Me and a workmate recently went to collect some wood from an estate that we'd bought, pull up outside the copse and within minutes we had the force helicopter land next to us followed by six, yes SIX police cars! His poor lordship had been experiencing problems with deer poaching. It's not even funny.

We are a dying breed, without an attempt to get ourselves classed as indigenous peoples same as the innuit we are a dying breed, do what weve always done, keep yer eyes peeled, careful what you say and do yer thing.

We should adopt the Millwall song, "no one likes us and we don't care". :)

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Two years down the road and thousands of dog folk have not an inkling of the AWL whats its agenda or actual structure is other than advise to join such and such which is in itself off putting as most reasonable folk dont join anything with out all information being in front of them. Repeal of the Hunting with Dogs Act was demanded some 12 years ago straight after the Acts introduction and except for one abortive attempt by D Cameron to bring a vote for Repeal before the parliament where are we? There have been several references to half a million marching on London before the Act was brought into Law. I had a look yesterday the Countryside Alliance has slightly over 100,000 members, May be some one has figures for membership of COHA and other representative bodies hunting related I would suggest that combined they would be hard pressed to muster any where near half a million Marchers now that in itself flags up several questions and certainly shows that apathy and may be even lethargy have increased over the years Trench said build it and they will come, before anything can be built an Archiatect and Engineers have to design and calculate

the feasability of such a project and what will be the projected demand . Without mass mobilisation and appeal the challenge will remain talk. Thousands of folk have cotinued to hunt under the radar and feel they are better off ,these are the majority so unless the game plan is solidified and implemented ASAP as time passes the numbers on the other side of the wire will continue to grow.

Edited by desertbred
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Limpo the point I'm trying to make is all people who hunt with Lurchers should join together and voice their opinion. The AwL is there for anyone to join and to do just that. Instead of people bickering join the club and help structure it. I shoot and was a member of BASC for years but have recently joined the CA because I feel they will be more involved with Lurchers than BASC ever will and you still get insurance. The more lurcher owners that join CA and AwL they will sit up and take notice. It's roughly the same price to join the CA as it is BASC. I don't shoot as much as I did but always take my gun with me when out with the dog.

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I wonder what is the reason for difficulty recruiting folk to the AWL ? could this be one of the reasons ?

 

"Thank Goodness THL is a small fraction of the Lurcher World and a bunch of key board warriors to boot."

Edited by desertbred
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I feel that I'm in the fortunate, or possibly unfortunate, position of being able to see both sides of the argument concerning how AWL is failing to reach and motivate lurcher owners and why so many are unwilling to participate in an organised lurcher association. Trying to change the mindset of so many working lurchermen (I use the gender specific term deliberately) would be a close to impossible task, in view of the historic abuse and ignorance on both sides. And before anyone suggests that I am hardly in a position to mention either, I do understand perfectly why a man with a dog, who comes and goes as he pleases, silently, leaving no trace, is opposed to joining any organisation which may highlight his lifestyle.

Some of Sandymere's suggestions are great, and whilst it is essential to reach the wider lurcher-owning public, without a strong committee made up of those who have the time, energy and resources to commit themselves to the cause, nothing will ever happen. Using the AWL as a whipping boy for grievances and hates against the wider sporting community or the law is both misplaced and a waste of time.

As to whether we could ever get the law changed, or even change the attitudes of such as the COH or CA, I have no idea. A reputation for being those who walk alone, or by night, in the dark, is hardly going to endear us to the people who stand so strongly in their visibility and determination to stick together come what may. And of course there's the class issue as well. I count myself as middle class, but even I felt looked down on and barely tolerated when I attended various race days with my lurchers, in the run up to the ban. And, many years ago, when I hunted on horseback, the clique of the toffs was frightening. I felt a bit like a little flower seller in a Victorian drama: invisible and swept aside by the big shining horses and their hip flask toting hooray Henry's. If you weren't in their circle, you were nothing.

 

At the very most, I could see a stronger lurcher organisation made up of both working and non-working lurcher owners including both clubs and individuals in their membership with a strong committee at the helm and a continuous and vocal presence at every country fair and lurcher show. Frequent press releases, a group who continually monitor the press and are quick to respond with complaints against prejudiced and unfair articles which depict us in the worst possible light, as well as pushing all forms of media to include positive lurcher stories rather than the same tired old reports of coursers or pet-killing lurchers.

 

Will it ever happen? I very much doubt it. Old school, such as myself, are just that, too old and tired to try and bring any change. I really feel for today's youngsters, those with their first lurcher and dreams of roaming the land with a meat-providing dog at their side. But with the lurcher world itself so deeply divided between those who toe the line of the law and those who stick two fingers up at it, I fail to see how we can ever form a strong voice that speaks for us all. Not when those who flout this unjust law are doing so in ways that attract media attention. It would be different if the law breakers, whatever method they use, operated under the radar, though I realise that becomes harder and harder to do, what with drones and thermal imaging and every man and his aunt busy videoing or photographing our dogs at work, on their phones.

We really are between a rock and a hard place, beset on both sides by damage. At one time I thought we could change public perception, but when that perception is being constantly skewed by the media, and we're all tarred with the same rotten brush, what the hell do we do?

 

 

 

 

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Some good points Skycat but one point of umbridge the whipping boys appear to be any one associated with coarsing and poaching most of whom do not choose to be criminalised or operate outside the Law. However If they wish to continue the centuries old country activities then there are no altenatives. Yes some do broadcast and post items that are best at present remaining private but as some folk point out we are where we are and those accused of being keyboard warriors are the very folk who keep on keeping on while others want to pretend that all is ok in the associations when every man and his dog and women and their dogs know that isnt the case and ostracisation isnt part of representation.

Edited by desertbred
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Limpo the point I'm trying to make is all people who hunt with Lurchers should join together and voice their opinion. The AwL is there for anyone to join and to do just that. Instead of people bickering join the club and help structure it. I shoot and was a member of BASC for years but have recently joined the CA because I feel they will be more involved with Lurchers than BASC ever will and you still get insurance. The more lurcher owners that join CA and AwL they will sit up and take notice. It's roughly the same price to join the CA as it is BASC. I don't shoot as much as I did but always take my gun with me when out with the dog.

I think where people coming from is they don't want to be represented by the CA, its done nothing for us at all by large, nor do they want to join an organisation that isnt in their line of hunting, the old ways don't work, the CA will not do anything for lurcher men no matter how many join, we all know that their priorities don't lay along the same path as ours, yea they would pay us lip service too get our coin but they haven't and wont do anything, well except cut us adrift once they got said money, they have made no real attempt too make us want to join either, they big organisations and I doubt they would really want to be stuck with our fight as well as what they do now,

 

Think the off put for a lot of lurcher owners with AWL is that in its code of conduct it says work within the law, which is at odds with a lot of what people do, even them with permission, what people really want is somebody to go for full repeal, they just don't want to be the one too do it lol they want somebody too argue our side of the coin not half hearted or as a secondary issue as it would be too the likes of the CA etc.

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funny this thread really , cos people just fudge around saying what they really want , like its something too be ashamed of ;)

 

we only want rid of 'one' law/set of legislation, so how many good solid and valid arguments can be made against that law? that's what needs attacking not each other, look at whom bought it in, how did they do it and why? who funded it, attack the anti's as they do us, inform the world of just what and who we are, that we deserve a place in society, there's enough of us just by the size of this and many other sites, theres more issues at lay thatn simply telling you that you cant do ABC, minorities never had it so good in the world at large, and we are deffo a minority :victory:

 

what also needs looking into is just who, is going to benefit from this change if it can be bought about? what sort of people are we? the press only denotes one type, landowners only speak of one type of lurcherman in public? what cant the same landowners who benefit from our work speak out? more too the point why cant we just simply speak out?

 

As Ive said now not really the time the worlds or our portion is changing, we out of Europe which maybe a positive step, maybe the next phase will be finding our national identity again, we under conservative rule which is a plus in our favour, nor are we likely too see the return of labour anytime soon again a positive, next time we go to fight for ourselves lets not do it hanging onto the CA etc as we likely end up the sacrificial lamb again, might as well be under our own steam and for our own agenda, well assuming we got one :laugh:

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Well let's all put the past behind us and start a fresh I am old school too and stuck in my ways but I am for all of us getting on together no one wants to fight for us so let us all join together try it let us all stop saying it does not bother me when it does bother us all looking over your shoulder everywhere you go.

 

Let's get one voice for us all working lurcher and pet lurcher owners everyone wants us devided United we have a very strong voice.

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Look it is only £11 and kids are free what have you got to loose not even 2 packets of cigs if then you do not get any voice then Jack it in but try I think all could afford £11 they could also start a family membership would be nice boost the voice more numbers,

 

BS

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The world is just as round as its always been,Folk need an inner strength and commitment to stand up and be willing to go for the jugular you dont wina struggle or fight by playing footsie. People especially ordinary folk have had the guts kicked out of them for years and lots loose the desire to achieve what is right and just. Times and technologies change alternative facts, manipulation of the Media massage of statistics and spreadsheets form the basis of mass control.. The Country side is now predominantley owned and controlled (a)by multi national companies and conglomerates and the most media savvy and self interest groups want to determine how you spend your waking and even your sleeping hours. The right to hunt game should be enshrined in Common Law not be a draconian Act that serves a few and is at the whim of a bunch of self rightious pratts that think country life is driving down green lanes with th windows down ,and tucking into Tofu and Soya at the local hostelry. How wiil the following generations look back on what has happened on our watch I personally think it shamefull and still we allow past failures to dictate how to move forward. Every working dog owner needs to examine their own conscience and be prepared to grind out a policy even of licensed hunting but hunting for all not the select few.

Edited by desertbred
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The world is just as round as its always been,Folk need an inner strength and commitment to stand up and be willing to go for the jugular you dont wina struggle or fight by playing footsie. People especially ordinary folk have had the guts kicked out of them for years and lots loose the desire to achieve what is right and just. Times and technologies change alternative facts, manipulation of the Media massage of statistics and spreadsheets form the basisof masscontrol.. The Country side is now predominantley owned and controlled (a)by multi national companies and conglomerates and ( B) the most media savvy and self interest groups want to determine how you spend your waking and even your sleeping hours. The right to hunt game should beenshrined in common Law notbe a draconian Act that serves a few and is at the whim of a bunch of self rightious pratts that think country life is driving down green lanes with th windows down ,and tucking intotofu and soya at the local hostelry. How wiil thefollowing generationslook back on what hashappened on our watch I personally think it shamefull and still we allow past failures to dictate how to move forward. Every working dog owner needs to examine their own conscienceand be prepared to grindout a policy even of licensedhunting but hunting for all not the select few.

I had the guts kicked out of me too I have ran dogs for almost 55 years but I still have fight in me to say anything and to fight for my sport I love what are we going to say just take it without a fight we have been doing that and just been laying back.

I was talking to an American that works with me last night he hunts hounds a pack for what the call rabbits Jack rabbits and they buy a licence every year open to all I would do that easy but we have to put a good fight forward together.

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