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Lost My Appeal


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#31 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:06 am

Very sorry to hear this ridiculous decision. If a similar theft happens to to anyone else it looks like the best think to do is say nothing.

Well everyone to their own, I don't Blame Mr Cox A&S firearms officer as he had a job to do and he has a boss to please i would of thought to anyone in my position should have a good bollicking and a warning letter to go on record.I really don't think the courts findings against me has done a lot of good for the British public infact their lives could be put in more danger now as i see it. If bullets get stolen and reported to the Police and lets face they always are going to go missing with breakins or robberies, the police will know how many and what caliber they are looking for, but if the person who loses them do report it and face   the same as i did will they report it?.Regardless if the law says they should, if they don't report it that means there are bullets out on the street which Police no nothing about and as i see it that puts the public in danger just my opinion.


Edited by THE STALKER, 09 October 2016 - 07:12 am.

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#32 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:10 am

Really sorry to hear this Owen - I know we had a difference of opinion recently but your passion for the sport could never be doubted and I'm really gutted that this has happened to you. You must be devastated - I know I would be. Don't give up though - Keep your permissions ticking over by sharing your experience like you have been and if there's any justice in the world you'll have the ticket back soon. So much for justice.

Thanks Matt i have no problem with you it was just a as you say difference of opinion, you say that i must be devastated well i don't know of a word in my vocabulary to say how i feel.


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#33 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:25 am

I did have a Barrister from London to fight my case but i don't know where or if there is any way i can fight this again i am 63 registered disabled with Osteo Arthritis and not working.All i had was my shooting with the gear  what was stolen out of my Truck and what i have payed in Barristers court costs and all the other bits and pieces i am in debt to the tune of nearly £6,000 thats going to take some paying back on my small income, on the bright side if there is one i still have all my Permissions and i still have all my guns

 

                                                                                    6TE3wXu.jpg

 

I can not use them but up to now i still have them and that is only because Steve Beaty from Ivythorn sporting a registered RFD was good enough to tell me he will hold them clean and look after them for up to 3 years for a very very small charge or up until i decide what to do with them as up to now i aint got a clue, if i decide to get rid it is not just the guns as you all know it is what goes with shooting as i am sure you me and others have all sorts of things that go with shooting , I can't thank Steve Beaty enough he is a real gent it's nice to know some one has some passion .



#34 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 06:29 am

If any of you are really into my case i still have i think my Bundle and the police Bundle i took to court it makes interesting reading just pm me your email address and i will send them to you ..



#35 sussex

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 07:55 am

Read them , long story short ....all your experience, all your letters of reference, your record = nothing
1 police officers opinion.........................................................= everything

Sad day indeed ..
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#36 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 08:01 am

Read them , long story short ....all your experience, all your letters of reference, your record = nothing
1 police officers opinion.........................................................= everything

Sad day indeed ..

That's what i think Rich.



#37 sussex

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 08:30 am

Read them , long story short ....all your experience, all your letters of reference, your record = nothing
1 police officers opinion.........................................................= everything
Sad day indeed ..

That's what i think Rich.

Clearly what people like us think means jack shite ....

#38 BRY

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 08:52 am

Sad news that. If you can still go out with friends and carry on shooting that will help.

But not the same , having to rely on some one else. I hope you carry on shooting and that 3 years fly by and you get your ticket back

#39 scraggoak

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 11:03 am

Hi Owen

 

I think the point you make about people not reporting the loss of ammunition is a valid one, any stalker who has followed this thread will think twice before reporting lost ammunition, having watched the proceedings i like you believe the judge had made his mind up before any evidence was given he was without doubt in a rush to get away.

you have an open invitation to hunt the elusive sussex  fallow anytime you fancy and the little dog won't be a problem. if you can can arrange an outing with Rich at the same all the better, ti might be a good idea to let the members on the stalking directory know the outcome.

keep you chin up

 

regards Geoff


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#40 stuartpengs

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 01:50 pm

Hi Owen

 

I think the point you make about people not reporting the loss of ammunition is a valid one, any stalker who has followed this thread will think twice before reporting lost ammunition, having watched the proceedings i like you believe the judge had made his mind up before any evidence was given he was without doubt in a rush to get away.

you have an open invitation to hunt the elusive sussex  fallow anytime you fancy and the little dog won't be a problem. if you can can arrange an outing with Rich at the same all the better, ti might be a good idea to let the members on the stalking directory know the outcome.

keep you chin up

 

regards Geoff

Whilst I have nothing but sympathy for the loss of the FAC and SGC for Owen I think we may be missing the point regarding the possibility of ammunition falling into the wrong hands. I don't think it is a valid point to suggest it will now be less likely that lost ammunition will be reported. The entire premise of the revocation is based entirely on allowing the ammunition to be placed in a situation that significantly increases the likelihood of it being stolen. I think it's a bit of a straw-man argument to then suggest it will now see a reduction in the reporting of stolen ammunition, the police would simply counter that point by stating it shouldn't be left where there's an increased chance of that happening anyway. It's not the threat or risk of a revocation that leads to ammunition and/or firearms falling into the hands of criminals, it's their improper storage (generally). If my house was broken into and my firearms and/or ammunition were stolen from their locked and securely fixed storage I wouldn't have a moments hesitation in reporting that to the police. The salient point from this entire story should not be the thought of not reporting stolen ammunition, it's that we should all be mindful of the consequences should we lapse in our responsibilities as SGC and FAC holders. Getting hold of the tickets is generally straightforward, keeping hold of them - less so. We should all be mindful that, given half a chance the local constabulary will have zero compunction in revocation should they be presented with (in their view) a valid reason.

 

For what it's worth, and speaking as a fellow shooter I also think a strict warning and perhaps some punitive measure that didn't entail the loss of the certs could have been used, though similarly I'm not entirely surprised this was deemed insufficient. It's not the first time I've heard of a ticket being revoked because of ammunition left in a vehicle (I know of a at least one SGC lost because of two cartridges left in a vehicle). You have my sympathies Owen, I would be absolutely inconsolable if I were in your position. I sincerely hope that, in the fullness of time, a reapplication is successful for you.


Edited by stuartpengs, 09 October 2016 - 02:19 pm.


#41 THE STALKER

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 03:38 pm

 

Hi Owen

 

I think the point you make about people not reporting the loss of ammunition is a valid one, any stalker who has followed this thread will think twice before reporting lost ammunition, having watched the proceedings i like you believe the judge had made his mind up before any evidence was given he was without doubt in a rush to get away.

you have an open invitation to hunt the elusive sussex  fallow anytime you fancy and the little dog won't be a problem. if you can can arrange an outing with Rich at the same all the better, ti might be a good idea to let the members on the stalking directory know the outcome.

keep you chin up

 

regards Geoff

Whilst I have nothing but sympathy for the loss of the FAC and SGC for Owen I think we may be missing the point regarding the possibility of ammunition falling into the wrong hands. I don't think it is a valid point to suggest it will now be less likely that lost ammunition will be reported. The entire premise of the revocation is based entirely on allowing the ammunition to be placed in a situation that significantly increases the likelihood of it being stolen. I think it's a bit of a straw-man argument to then suggest it will now see a reduction in the reporting of stolen ammunition, the police would simply counter that point by stating it shouldn't be left where there's an increased chance of that happening anyway. It's not the threat or risk of a revocation that leads to ammunition and/or firearms falling into the hands of criminals, it's their improper storage (generally). If my house was broken into and my firearms and/or ammunition were stolen from their locked and securely fixed storage I wouldn't have a moments hesitation in reporting that to the police. The salient point from this entire story should not be the thought of not reporting stolen ammunition, it's that we should all be mindful of the consequences should we lapse in our responsibilities as SGC and FAC holders. Getting hold of the tickets is generally straightforward, keeping hold of them - less so. We should all be mindful that, given half a chance the local constabulary will have zero compunction in revocation should they be presented with (in their view) a valid reason.

 

For what it's worth, and speaking as a fellow shooter I also think a strict warning and perhaps some punitive measure that didn't entail the loss of the certs could have been used, though similarly I'm not entirely surprised this was deemed insufficient. It's not the first time I've heard of a ticket being revoked because of ammunition left in a vehicle (I know of a at least one SGC lost because of two cartridges left in a vehicle). You have my sympathies Owen, I would be absolutely inconsolable if I were in your position. I sincerely hope that, in the fullness of time, a reapplication is successful for you.

 

Mistakes happen in all walks of life from the very top leaders down to the kid in a playground, my mistake was thinking that my locked and alarmed Truck with ammunition well hidden was safe,if the house had been broken into cabinet force open i would not be in the situation i am in now. My earlier statement was just my opinion if someone else makes the same mistake as i did will they report it knowing that they could lose their lively hood or would it be better not to say anything and hope for the best just my thoughts, i think i done the right thing by reporting the missing ammo but all i am saying i was honest and got the bullets back and i had a harsh ending to the court case.



#42 scraggoak

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 04:37 pm

Hi Stuartpengs.

 

What a well written post, you are obviously Very careful with you ammunition which is as it should be, unfortunately there are others who are not so careful and i can assure you that ammunition is often stored in glove boxes, ash trays, under seats and in all manner of places, its not right but it does happen. these are the people that will not report stolen ammunition, the point that you make about about someone you know loosing his ticket for leaving two cartridges in his car is hard to believe as unlike section five ammunition there is no law regarding safe storage of shotgun cartridges or the need to report them as stolen.


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#43 stuartpengs

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 04:38 pm

Yep, absolutely agree mistakes happen Owen. I think the point is though that they're less likely (though not impossible) to break into someone's house, then break into a cabinet, especially if the house is occupied, and even if they did you're unlikely to lose your certs. I absolutely agree you did the right thing reporting the missing ammunition, if you did this knowing the probable consequences then it's even more commendable, and I'll tip my hat to you sir. The sequence of events was initially triggered by the mistaken assumption that a locked vehicle was deemed suitably secure - I hope that's the lesson all of us who read this thread take away with us. I'm sure the police would rather not be having to deal with the possibility of ammunition falling into the wrong hands than using it as a reason for revocation. As said previously, I hope any reapplication in the future is successful.

 

If ever you find yourself in North Wales, please get in touch and I would be more than happy to accompany you for a day/night out with some guns, and I'm sure I could learn a thing or two also.


Edited by stuartpengs, 09 October 2016 - 04:56 pm.


#44 stuartpengs

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 04:46 pm

Hi Stuartpengs.

 

What a well written post, you are obviously Very careful with you ammunition which is as it should be, unfortunately there are others who are not so careful and i can assure you that ammunition is often stored in glove boxes, ash trays, under seats and in all manner of places, its not right but it does happen. these are the people that will not report stolen ammunition, the point that you make about about someone you know loosing his ticket for leaving two cartridges in his car is hard to believe as unlike section five ammunition there is no law regarding safe storage of shotgun cartridges or the need to report them as stolen.

Hi Geoff,

 

the chap who lost his SGC left them in view (dash of a Land Rover), reported by a member of the public, police deemed it sufficient to revoke his ticket. Yes I've seen ammo left in vehicles too, and if I know the person I try to explain to them it's just not worth the risk. If someone doesn't report missing ammunition from a vehicle break-in, but still reports the break-in they'll be looking at more than a revocation should it be found out in the future - each misjudgment compounds the next.. I just wanted to clarify that, as much as I sympathise with Owen's situation the important part of this sorry tale seems to be getting lost. It's not the reporting of the lost ammunition that, ultimately cost Owen his certs.

 

I don't want this to sound as a 'holier than thou' type of post, if that's who it's interpreted then I apologise, as that's not my intention


Edited by stuartpengs, 09 October 2016 - 05:07 pm.


#45 sussex

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Posted 09 October 2016 - 05:44 pm

[quote name="stuartpengs" post="4322744" timestamp="1476031568"][quote name="scraggoak" post="4322734" timestamp="1476031075"]
Hi Stuartpengs.
 
What a well written post, you are obviously Very careful with you ammunition which is as it should be, unfortunately there are others who are not so careful and i can assure you that ammunition is often stored in glove boxes, ash trays, under seats and in all manner of places, its not right but it does happen. these are the people that will not report stolen ammunition, the point that you make about about someone you know loosing his ticket for leaving two cartridges in his car is hard to believe as unlike section five ammunition there is no law regarding safe storage of shotgun cartridges or the need to report them as stolen.
[/quote]
Hi Geoff,
 
......" I just wanted to clarify that, as much as I sympathise with Owen's situation the important part of this sorry tale seems to be getting lost. It's not the reporting of the lost ammunition that, ultimately cost Owen his certs"......




A great deal is down to a low life junkie that robbed the man of not only his property but his passion ....who no doubt will continue his passion of thieving from anybody he can ..
 


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