North Wales police won't entertain HMR as suitable for fox. It's bizarre the apparent variations from one constabulary to another.
With all due respect someone needs to challenge them, the Home Office (in simple terms the Police regions Head Office) says the HMR is fine for fox, who is a regional office to argue/question/go against a Head Office ruling?
To what end though? Whether we like it or not we're all subject to the arbitrary policy decisions of individual Chief Constables, ranging from calibre suitability, ammunition quantity allowed to be held, and a myriad of other idiosyncrasies. Calibre suitability will always be subjective, even between shooters (as this thread demonstrates), it's hardly surprising to see a similar subjectivity between individual police forces. Challenging such policies will do nothing other than bring about clarification that, irrespective of Home Office guidelines, policy decision ultimately lies with the head shed.
The Home Office goes to a lot of trouble and expense to provide a guide to the Police so they can interpret the Law in an even handed fashion throughout the country.
Then there is ACPO etc that also agree terms. We all know that it is not interpreted the same way throughout, but if people simply roll over and accept things it never will be.
There is nothing to stop anyone asking for clarification of the Police stance (other than balls) and if you/anyone have a problem with that get the BASC (other shooting organisations are available) to ask on your behalf.
The BASC are very good at putting the regions straight and have got people fox conditions in these circumstances many times, I believe there are threads on THL about it!
If you are concerned about the specific mention of fox then don't be, vermin or Any Lawful Quarry is fox! The latest Home Office Guide quite clearly interprets Vermin to mean fox, etc, NO police region would ever bring any prosecution against you for shooting fox under Vermin or ALQ, when all your brief needs to do is wave the Home Office guide under the Judges nose, no court would ever convict in these circumstances, and would most like bollock the region for wasting public time/money!
I'm not concerned about anything Deker, I simply pointed out that North Wales Police don't view .17 HMR as a suitable round for fox. It doesn't concern me.
We've done that bit haven't we, my whole point is that there are very probably ways of straightening out N Wales and getting HMR for Fox, either directly or under the heading Vermin or ALQ, as the vast majority of HMR are conditioned for vermin, that IS fox!!!
As far as I'm aware there's no legal definition of 'vermin'. If you're using the generic definition from a dictionary it will also include "people perceived as despicable and as causing problems for the rest of society", and rightly or wrongly you can't use a rimfire on those either, just because "Vermin" is wrtitten on your FAC. If it specifically states not to be used on Fox then I would advise against trying to interpret it to suit your own perceptions. If you're wanting to test the wording the by all means be my guest, however for me North Wales police are the judge and jury as far as licensing stipulations, and as is often the case trying to be the smart arse would probably end up being a one way ticket to losing your ticket. As far as I'm aware North Wales police aren't the only ones that specifically prohibit .17 HMR on foxes.
N. Wales are NOT the judge and jury, if it really came to it the Courts are.
The latest Home Office guide lists FOX as VERMIN, and there is absolutely no doubt that ALQ includes fox.
If you have Vermin or ALQ on your FAC then N Wales don't have a leg to stand on if you shoot fox.
Please read my posts, why are you determined to crawl up N Wales Arse and not even bother asking them WHY?
Like I said, if you don't have the balls then get the BASC to sort them out, they are very good at it!
I will strongly suggest some people in N Wales have Vermin and or ALQ and shoot fox totally within the terms of their FAC.
I have never heard of anyone with a condition that says Vermin and/or ALQ but also says EXCLUDES FOX, if by any chance you have a condition that specifically excludes fox then that may be an issue, but if it also states Vermin and/or ALQ then you have more than reasonable cause to question that stupid/contradictory condition..
Edited by Deker, 05 September 2016 - 05:27 pm.