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Rusty_terrier

Rifle In Car

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Lamp + missed shot= lampshy.

 

 

:yes::yes::yes:

 

Quite...apparently the OP was just looking, not shooting!

 

:thumbs:

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Lamp + missed shot= lampshy.

 

:yes::yes::yes:

 

Quite...apparently the OP was just looking, not shooting!

 

:thumbs:

"Apparently" you sound doubtful. You another one who has fallen to the nany state and thinks the worst of every situation or am I missing something I've said? I was very clear I wasn't shooting

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Lamp + missed shot= lampshy.

 

:yes::yes::yes:

 

Quite...apparently the OP was just looking, not shooting!

 

:thumbs:

"Apparently" you sound doubtful. You another one who has fallen to the nany state and thinks the worst of every situation or am I missing something I've said? I was very clear I wasn't shooting

 

 

I think you need to take a step back and read my comments on his thread again!

 

Then I may consider letting you get down on your knees and apologise!

Edited by Deker

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Double post.

 

Edited by Deker

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Smack talk would have been better if you hadn't done the double post mistake. If I got down to my knees I'd still be a head and shoulders above you.

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Smack talk would have been better if you hadn't done the double post mistake. If I got down to my knees I'd still be a head and shoulders above you.

 

You asked the question and you got your answer a long while back, if you don't like it or don't understand I can't help you.

 

Like I said READ my posts again then you can apologise, I have never made any suggestion about the validity of your comments so don't try and take the ****!

 

Have a nice day!

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How can someone be arrested for something they have not done.

So if I walk up to an empty house and knock on the door a police officer can arrest me because he thinks I may be about to burglar somewhere lol.

Nuts.

Ifs and buts, maybes and could. Nonsense.

But to have these scenarios on parr you'd need to be carrying drivers, jimmys etc.

If this was the case , you'd be lifted quicker than you can imagine fella.. To think other wise is as dumb as it gets unfortunately..

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Lamp + missed shot= lampshy.

 

:yes::yes::yes:

 

Quite...apparently the OP was just looking, not shooting!

 

:thumbs:

"Apparently" you sound doubtful. You another one who has fallen to the nany state and thinks the worst of every situation or am I missing something I've said? I was very clear I wasn't shooting
Not many folk admit to doing a crime they've done or being questioned about

Let's face it, if someone had ground near me, I knew there motor & seen it lamping my ground on "there way home" the police would be the least of there worrys, not because my thinking is built on a nannied state, but because I'm a realist & chances are they were up to no good..

Edited by Alimac2
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In Preston recently a chap was attacked by an out of control police dog that escaped from a trading ground. The victim was renewing his gym membership or about too when attacked by the dog. When the handle regained control of the dog the victim was arrested as he had his tools in his car!

The police looked for an excuse to shift the blame off themselves!

It was a greater Manchester force training there at the time.

 

This is modern policing today and it is wrong.

Every one is no deemed guilty and if not the police will fit you up with something.

 

Whilst many may accept it I won't and never will. The police of today are like a wild beast. Unpredictable as to when it may attack!.

 

I stand by beliefs. To have a gun and shot game and unable to prove where the game was taken from legitimately is one thing. Shining a light around on the way home irrespective to what is in a car is innocent of a crime.

 

U.

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In Preston recently a chap was attacked by an out of control police dog that escaped from a trading ground. The victim was renewing his gym membership or about too when attacked by the dog. When the handle regained control of the dog the victim was arrested as he had his tools in his car!

The police looked for an excuse to shift the blame off themselves!

It was a greater Manchester force training there at the time.

This is modern policing today and it is wrong.

Every one is no deemed guilty and if not the police will fit you up with something.

Whilst many may accept it I won't and never will. The police of today are like a wild beast. Unpredictable as to when it may attack!.

I stand by beliefs. To have a gun and shot game and unable to prove where the game was taken from legitimately is one thing. Shining a light around on the way home irrespective to what is in a car is innocent of a crime.

U.

You also think someone going equipped to burgle wouldn't get arrested good luck, you'll needit one day..

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In Preston recently a chap was attacked by an out of control police dog that escaped from a trading ground. The victim was renewing his gym membership or about too when attacked by the dog. When the handle regained control of the dog the victim was arrested as he had his tools in his car!

The police looked for an excuse to shift the blame off themselves!

It was a greater Manchester force training there at the time.

This is modern policing today and it is wrong.

Every one is no deemed guilty and if not the police will fit you up with something.

Whilst many may accept it I won't and never will. The police of today are like a wild beast. Unpredictable as to when it may attack!.

I stand by beliefs. To have a gun and shot game and unable to prove where the game was taken from legitimately is one thing. Shining a light around on the way home irrespective to what is in a car is innocent of a crime.

U.

You also think someone going equipped to burgle wouldn't get arrested good luck, you'll needit one day..

Thanks, I think.

I guess against a wild beast and no protection one does indeed need a lot of luck!

 

I am a fabricator/welder and I often have hammers, pri bars and grinders in the car. Is that a crime? No.

 

Alas, for me to be branded as a budding criminal by the state and it's police for having tools of my trade on me is very very wrong and a poor excuse of a deterrent to real criminals!

U.

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Ok Underdog, a serious question, I live in Yorkshire, however I have quite a lot of shooting, over the border in Derbyshire, now, on my way home from some of my permissions, there is a large estate, that you may of heard of, it is the Chatsworth estate, now, let us assume I have been shooting elsewhere, on my way home, I decide to stop and shine my lamp across the estate at the resident fallow deer , perhaps some 200 yards away, the police pull along side me and ask me what I am doing, in the boot of my jeep, I have a dead Fallow buck, shot quite legitimately on land I have permission on, assuming the police search my vehicle, on suspicion of poaching/theft, do you think I might have a difficult time explaining myself? Yes perhaps I could prove I had shot the buck legit, but would you want the hassle? I know I would not.

 

I would have said in the absence of hard evidence eg Independent witnesses or more likely DNA evidence from the deer itself (assuming the two groups had never intermingled), proving yourself innocent in those circumstances would be near impossible.

 

Remember, although the burden of proof is higher for Criminal as opposed to Civil proceedings, it still does not require absolute proof. Only proof beyond reasonable doubt. Look at the circumstances, you were caught on land you have no permission over, the land carries deer, you were caught with a rifle, ammunition, lamp and a dead deer in the car boot, shot with your rifle and with ammunition forensically traceable to your gun, and if you were caught most likely because someone had reported poaching activity in the area, either now or in the past. That's beyond reasonable doubt, so in the absence of hard DNA evidence, to prove the deer couldn't have come from that land, you're pretty much stuffed.

 

An excellent example of how things could go wrong from CC and even if you got DNA tests, which could take months, what if the deer have intermingled?

 

Common sense goes a long way to preventing many pitfalls.......

 

As I've said before many times, always cover your back. It's not necessarily just the law that's important but as the fictitious example above illustrates, what you can prove.....

 

 

 

 

As Charlie caller said yesterday at 2206 that is probably what would happen.

The person wouldn't need to be holding the weapon for him to be guilty of going equipped, he would only have to be in possession of it, which he is by it being in his car.

If he is using it to poach an animal that someone has invested time and money into, then that person owns the animal and that can be classed as theft.

Especially if the person has dead animals with him too, then he would be arrested on suspicion of an offence, his weapons seized and he would then have an opportunity to give his side of events in interview.

He may then be released without charge, he may get his weapons back eventually, his FLO would be informed and the incident will always be recorded as such.

The police don't need to be in possession of all the evidence to arrest someone, that's why they can hold you for 24 hours to get that evidence.

Don't underestimate what the police can or cannot do, you may not like the police, most criminals don't, but having the wrong attitude with them will only make them more determined to use their powers accordingly.

Unless you are a lawyer that knows the law inside out then please be careful with any advice being given out.

I think the OP knew the correct answer when he originally posted the question, it isn't worth it, even if there is no mens rea.

Of course a person with authorised firearms in their car is going equipped. Equipped to do some shooting where he can or has been.

 

Simply looking does not imply illegal activity despite what you or whoever's opinion may be on how it maybe percieved by the police!

 

 

 

If the person is shooting where he has permission then he is fine. He will simply explain what he is doing, facts may be checked and the police will leave.

If the police ask and he says he does not have permission on the land he is looking over, then the police can have reasonable grounds to suspect he is about to commit an offence, and arrest him for such an offence.

He will then explain in interview his reasons for looking over someone else's land, at night (when most poaching occurs), with a lamp, while in possession of firearms, with the reason for police attendance being a report of poaching on the land in question (as police generally just don't just turn up). Then it will be up to the custody Sgt, or the CPS to decide if he is telling the truth and if any charges should be put to him.

If there are charges, or the police need more time for enquiries, he will then be bailed, his equipment will stay seized, as it was on arrest, and he will have to return at a later date with all of this hanging over his head until then.

 

I am not looking to start an argument, and it is fine to have a disagreement of opinions, but I am merely stating what I KNOW the law to be,and the law isn't an opinion, and I am sure you are an intelligent person and can work out how I know what the law is.

Is it really worth it to look at wildlife, as we all like to do, as I am sure we do not shoot every living thing we see, but enjoy watching the world wake up first thing in the morning, and watching wildlife go about their daily business.

 

 

Someone talking sense from a point of knowledge. :bye:

 

Also as with any walk of life there are good and bad officers. Danny is probably a good guy. However, you cannot simply assume that because your own FEO has always been nice to you, that all officers will be the same or even that he will remain friendly. Some are just waiting for a slip up. Which is where I disagree with Deker. Just because you have a good relationship currently doesn't mean the same person won't screw you over the next day. It's like a marriage, the person you love one day can be stabbing you in the back the next. ;)

 

I don't trust any of the FEO's, not matter how nice they seem, although I also have good reason.

 

My advice is always be nice, polite and treat them with respect. There are good ones and treat them all that way.

 

But don't for a minute think they're your friends. Keep your distance and be careful of what you do or say as some are simply trying to gain your confidence hoping you'll slip up. Treat your relationship as a business relationship and you'll be ok, because that is what it is. They're not sent out to be your friend. They're at work doing a job and that job is to ensure you comply with the law. For those with a personal agenda, that job / aim may be to get your licence. Realise it's possibly their job to take and it and yours to keep it, and you''ll make achieving the latter much easier.

Edited by Alsone
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It's all very simple really, you know when you are taking liberties, if you want to shine your lamp over land you do not have permission to shoot, take your guns home first.

 

Try pushing the boundaries with firearms and you will always come second best one way or another to the licensing authorities.

 

If you were walking past land you have no permission to be on with a lurcher on a lead, and you lamped that land and got stopped, try convincing the police you had no intention of slipping that dog. Why would a firearm be any different? If you are unlucky enough to be stopped and charged with intent and going equipped, found guilty you will not only lose your firearms but could possibly lose the vehicle you are driving also. Now before anybody screams bull, ask some of the guys who have had vehicles taken from them in the past for doing the very same thing.

 

It's difficult to get a firearms certificate, but a lot easier to lose one.

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