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Rusty_terrier

Rifle In Car

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If you don't want Hassel in your lives sell your guns now.

 

At the drop of a hat or some other whim you/we can easily be a victim of prejudice.

 

While many live in fear of authority I don't.

I kicked police out of my home twice for thinking they could push me around! My nose is still white!

It's got absolutely nothing to do with hassle or throwing the Police out of your home for that matter. (Personally I wouldn't let them in uninvited without a warrant) It's down to having a reasonable excuse for having firearms in your car when as the O.P stated by his own admission, "many miles away from his permissions" late at night! Not good reading for the Chief Constable the following morning, regardless how it's explained away. Sometimes in real life it's easier to play the game and avoid unwanted hassles, esp where firearms are concerned, it's not a sign of weakness or cowardice.
I appreciate what you are saying however which ever way home an individual takes is still on the way home and no police authority has the time to faff over it.

 

It's all ifs and could ifs.

 

If I fell off a cliff today I could injure myself so I think I will wear a neck brace and phone a&e to warn them about the cliffs I won't be anywhere near today!

 

Shining a light is not an offence.

Poaching or discharging a firearm in an unauthorised area is.

 

None of the above has been suggested by the op.

 

U👍.

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Just to make it clear it is still on my way home just not the most direct route

 

:laugh::thumbs:

 

As foxtrotoscar pointed out, at least the last time I looked, transport of firearms is generally to and from their intended point of use.

 

A trip round the countryside, visiting your granny, doing your shopping, stopping for a meal at a restaurant, etc etc may well take some explaining were there to be an issue.

 

Anyone who has been on this site a while will know fully well I have put several FEO straight, A Firearms Dept manager, a Chief Inspector, a Police Force solicitor, several Superintendents and 2 Firearms Officers, I have no issue dealing with authority, but neither do I go out of my way looking for trouble!

 

ATB! :thumbs:

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I understand if you're in possession of a firearm in a public place, you commit an offence without reasonable excuse (even with a licence). The question here therefore is would it reasonable for you to tour around the countryside with a gun whilst looking for new shooting spots or would it be more reasonable for you to be expected to go home and travel out on a separate trip when scouting? I don't know the answer, but I would lean towards the latter. I don't think there's anything to say you have to take the most direct route home, but equally if the police believed you were deliberately out looking for spots whilst carrying a gun, rather than you simply pulled over on your way home when something caught your eye, it might get tricky. I wouldn't favour your chances of arguing it was reasonable for you to be in possession when simply scouting land over which you have no permission, even from in the car. You have the excuse of travelling to and from the shoot but then the question becomes one of when does a deviation become unreasonable....

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I don't think you could actually be done for it, but it might take a lot of unnecessary explaining. Easier to leave the gun behind and go for a proper nose about.

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I think on page one of this I explained, you are going equipped to commit a crime it's a real offence, if you are a carpenter on your way to work, with a boot full of hammers nail bars gloves and other assorted items, it's fine but if your on the dole driving round with these things in the boot you are going equipped, it's a crime, it's something that's a bit grey and hard to disprove, if you are off your route home, shining a lamp around land you have know right to be on with a boot full of shooters you are equipped to commit a crime, just take the guns home and save the hassle, it's no good saying a bloke on the internet says I can do it, sadly it's usually genuine people like yourself that end up getting screwed over by these little laws and as they will constantly point out to you, ignorance is not a defence,

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Well last time I checked, the only offences of "Going Equipped" relate only to going equipped to steal, burgle or commit criminal damage. There's no specific offence of going equipped to poach or commit armed/aggravated trespass. There are powers of forfeiture for a court to have items used in illegal hunting to be destroyed under the Hunting Act 2004 but these would be seized as a matter of course and not be a separate offence of going equipped.

 

From purely what the OP describes, shining a light onto land is not an offence, neither is being in possession of lawfully held firearms, providing they are sufficiently secure and only accessible by authorised persons. Taking an alternative route home is also not a crime.

 

A private vehicle is not a public place so the firearms legislation which makes possession of a firearm in a public place without reasonable excuse would not apply.

 

All that said, I don't believe in making waves because it's entirely unnecessary in these circumstances. It's got nothing to do with fearing authority, if you're polite and courteous towards those in authority, then generally they are the same to you. Civility costs nothing and by co-operating if you agree with their reasons or politely disagreeing if you don't, generally there are few problems.

 

That has always been the case when I've spoken to local officers and those in other areas, they have a job to do ultimately.

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Well last time I checked, the only offences of "Going Equipped" relate only to going equipped to steal, burgle or commit criminal damage. There's no specific offence of going equipped to poach or commit armed/aggravated trespass. There are powers of forfeiture for a court to have items used in illegal hunting to be destroyed under the Hunting Act 2004 but these would be seized as a matter of course and not be a separate offence of going equipped.

 

From purely what the OP describes, shining a light onto land is not an offence, neither is being in possession of lawfully held firearms, providing they are sufficiently secure and only accessible by authorised persons. Taking an alternative route home is also not a crime.

 

A private vehicle is not a public place so the firearms legislation which makes possession of a firearm in a public place without reasonable excuse would not apply.

 

All that said, I don't believe in making waves because it's entirely unnecessary in these circumstances. It's got nothing to do with fearing authority, if you're polite and courteous towards those in authority, then generally they are the same to you. Civility costs nothing and by co-operating if you agree with their reasons or politely disagreeing if you don't, generally there are few problems.

 

That has always been the case when I've spoken to local officers and those in other areas, they have a job to do ultimately.

I think you are mistaken here. I've read (again somewhere else) that a car is classed as a "public space" which is why your gun should be kept in within a slip and not on view on the back seat etc. Incidentally I'm no angel here and when recently stopped by the police as described in "Smiling assassins" thread, my rifle was stowed in the passenger footwell of my car unslipped, which is an offence had I been on the road I was heading to for the next fields. Fortunately this was not commented on by the officer who was a bit out of her comfort zone.

Edited by foxtrotoscar

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Do they have to be slipped ? How do folk get away with gun racks in the back of landy's etc ?

 

Personally I also agree it is not an offence to do as the op has suggested, but I do think it would cause a whole load of grief and explanations, if I caught someone lamping over my fields and it turned out they had weapons in the vehicle, I would instantly think the worst and be on the phone to old bill and first point would be that said folk were armed ! That alone would cause you a world of sh*t and I would imagine most landowners would do the same.

To sum up, why cause a load of grief for a look around, in this day and age you need to be on top of your game, and by doing as suggested it just gives the police (and general public) more reasons to confiscate weapons and push for stricter laws, do everyone a favour and leave the guns at home if your gonna go shining a lamp over ground your not entitled to shoot

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Do they have to be slipped ? How do folk get away with gun racks in the back of landy's etc ?

 

Personally I also agree it is not an offence to do as the op has suggested, but I do think it would cause a whole load of grief and explanations, if I caught someone lamping over my fields and it turned out they had weapons in the vehicle, I would instantly think the worst and be on the phone to old bill and first point would be that said folk were armed ! That alone would cause you a world of sh*t and I would imagine most landowners would do the same.

To sum up, why cause a load of grief for a look around, in this day and age you need to be on top of your game, and by doing as suggested it just gives the police (and general public) more reasons to confiscate weapons and push for stricter laws, do everyone a favour and leave the guns at home if your gonna go shining a lamp over ground your not entitled to shoot

Nothing wrong with a gun rack on the vehicle, and on private land it can be stocked up with legally held guns. But on the public road it's a no no. How many times have we read/heard about members of public reporting a gun visible on a back seat etc. I actually know of an incident, many years back, but will spare you the hilarious details.

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Well last time I checked, the only offences of "Going Equipped" relate only to going equipped to steal, burgle or commit criminal damage. There's no specific offence of going equipped to poach or commit armed/aggravated trespass. There are powers of forfeiture for a court to have items used in illegal hunting to be destroyed under the Hunting Act 2004 but these would be seized as a matter of course and not be a separate offence of going equipped.

 

From purely what the OP describes, shining a light onto land is not an offence, neither is being in possession of lawfully held firearms, providing they are sufficiently secure and only accessible by authorised persons. Taking an alternative route home is also not a crime.

 

A private vehicle is not a public place so the firearms legislation which makes possession of a firearm in a public place without reasonable excuse would not apply.

 

All that said, I don't believe in making waves because it's entirely unnecessary in these circumstances. It's got nothing to do with fearing authority, if you're polite and courteous towards those in authority, then generally they are the same to you. Civility costs nothing and by co-operating if you agree with their reasons or politely disagreeing if you don't, generally there are few problems.

 

That has always been the case when I've spoken to local officers and those in other areas, they have a job to do ultimately.

I think you are mistaken here. I've read (again somewhere else) that a car is classed as a "public space" which is why your gun should be kept in within a slip and not on view on the back seat etc. Incidentally I'm no angel here and when recently stopped by the police as described in "Smiling assassins" thread, my rifle was stowed in the passenger footwell of my car unslipped, which is an offence had I been on the road I was heading to for the next fields. Fortunately this was not commented on by the officer who was a bit out of her comfort zone.

 

 

A private vehicle, even if it's in a public place, is not public.

 

The Firearms Act '68 which deals with police powers of stop and search allows for a vehicle in a public place to be stopped and searched, provided there are reasonable grounds to suspect there are firearms in that vehicle to the officer searching. No different to being searched for drugs, stolen property or offensive weapons.

 

Technically speaking, which it usually is with firearms law, having your rifle unslipped in the car, loaded or otherwise, if lawfully held, is not an offence as again your private vehicle is not a public place. Albeit I'm not advocating any firearm being transported be unslipped or not cased...

 

The definition of "public place" from that act is as follows;

 

public place” includes any [F11highway][F11road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984)] and any other premises or place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted to have access, whether on payment or otherwise;

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A private vehicle, even if it's in a public place, is not public.

 

 

Not totally sure of that if this has been reported correctly:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098755/Re-enactment-enthusiast-swooped-armed-police-dragged-court-having-imitation-Nazi-machine-gun-seat-car.html

 

It would appear the gun was locked in the car at the time.

 

It may be that although the car is a private place in itself, the fact that the car is in a public place is sufficient to put the gun in a public place. I would suggest that the OP contact the BASC Firearms Dept for clarification.

Edited by Alsone

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I wouldn't attach too much credibility to Sporting Shooter answers online. They advise Polecats can be legally shot and when I rang BASC for confirmation they also quoted the Sporting shooter answer as she went online whilst I was on the phone! Only after a lot of digging myself did I find that Polecats were added full protection in 2006. Remember ignorance is no defence. I've checked the H.O PDF's I have but not found an answer yet, although I've certainly read it somewhere.

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Sporting Shooter is a good guy and even if he has got it wrong, we all get it wrong sometimes, (hence the disclaimer in the footer under my posts).

 

If you want definitive legal advice you should always consult a specialist solicitor or legal service such as the BASC department as case law often extends statutory provisions.

 

I would personally be very surprised if a gun in a car wasn't a public place (the car being private but the act of putting the car on public land putting the gun into a public place (albeit within a private vehicle)) and the case above would appear to suggest that to be the position, but as I said, it always pays to check with a specialist and it always pays to err on the side of caution if unable to check at that moment in time.

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As others have said, I just think you are inviting trouble, imagine the conversation. Plod..."good evening sir,mind telling us what you are doing?" you....."Just shining a lamp over the fields,checking out the local wildlife" plod....I see sir,well this estate/farm has had several incidents of deer poaching,stock theft,machinery theft,do you have firearms in the vehicle sir?" you.... yes I do, I have been shooting on ...... farm 12 miles away earlier, and just thought I would have a look round on my way home" plod....... I see sir, could you step out of the vehicle sir and put your hands behind your back" you see the way this is going mate? If its not land you have authority to be on, dont do it, its not worth the grief.

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