alimac 882 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 evening all, i would like to hear what others think the law is regarding a situation like the following a gamekeeper is asked by a beater who is just starting to get into country sports if it was possible to take them out for a hours ferreting, this person is employed in one of the fields that the police say a referre for your application needs, but does not hold a shotgun certificate, any way the keeper says yep no problem, the game cover at such and such a drive is getting hammered... monday comes and off the go, he gives him a lesson on shotgun safety on the clay trap then head off to bunnie bash, the guest has the shotgun in his hand waiting for a bolt when the local bobby turns up... the question is are they doing anything wrong ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
COMPO 54 Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 evening all, i would like to hear what others think the law is regarding a situation like the following a gamekeeper is asked by a beater who is just starting to get into country sports if it was possible to take them out for a hours ferreting, this person is employed in one of the fields that the police say a referre for your application needs, but does not hold a shotgun certificate, any way the keeper says yep no problem, the game cover at such and such a drive is getting hammered... monday comes and off the go, he gives him a lesson on shotgun safety on the clay trap then head off to bunnie bash, the guest has the shotgun in his hand waiting for a bolt when the local bobby turns up... the question is are they doing anything wrong ??? I dont know about scotland (i know they have slightly different laws) but as far as i understood, only someone holding a SGC can use a shotgun unless either at a registered Clay ground or when using the landowners gun on the landowners land and under their supervision, however i dont know whether the keeper could be classed as the landowner as he is an employee/agent of the owner? Any way be polite pass the time of day and the copper wont even start questioning who's gun it is and who can and cant use it, he would probably not even know the fine difference in the law and probably wouldn't care Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clay man 0 Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 hi in Ireland the bobby has the right to take the gun if is loaded and he dose not have certificate for it don`t mater how land your on don`t know over there hope this help`s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alimac 882 Posted December 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 compo, the situation came up when the firearms officer came out to do a shotgun certificate for my bosses wife, it was mentioned that i had had her out shooting a few clays and a bit of game.... his replie was that even though all my tickets ( sg and fac ) state that i can shoot anything on the estate as i have PERMISSION TO SHOOT but i would be breaking the law if i took her out with a shot gun ( or rifle) as i didnt OWN THE SHOOTING RIGHTS, I cant take my boss out stalking as again i dont own the stalking rights, even though my tickets states i can shoot deer on all parts of the estate..... but there you go, i was always under the impression that i was allowed to take a none ticket holder out as long as they were in my pressance all the time.. another shocker was that if clients came to shoot game here and were staying in a local hotel that had no gun security i would be breaching certificate conditions if i used the 72 hour rule to store there licensed shot guns in my approved cabinet till the next morning and could in theorie lose my ticket they would prefere it to be left covered up locked away in there boot in a pub car park.. I WAS FECKING SPEECHLESS i have sent a e mail to my local cheif con asking why when we take a driving test we need to learn the law before we take our test and get granted a license, as they expect you to know the law of the road before you venture forth.. yet with a sgc they dont give you anything regarding all the laws... and why it states on the ticket that " you can lend / borrow a shot gun for up 72 hours with out telling the cheif of police" yet theres no mention (anywhere) of any clauses in the said sentence.. i await his replie.. it just annoys me that i could lose the tools of my trade because there leeding you to belive things that aint actual law Quote Link to post Share on other sites
v-max 2 Posted December 11, 2007 Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hi alimac this is a strange 1 on me but i dont know the laws that well as there so many to know.I thought you could take someone out as long as you were there to mentor them ie 2ft away at all times.I know your area & they are very good in my eyes with FAC/SGC unlike Tayside they hate guns.I was loading for people that had never shot before last year & this is quite common now a days on shoots & the loader is there to help keep safe & instruct as long they hold SGC + insurance.Was at a shoot last week & a gun went for a black=bird .As for guns in the car boot im speachless Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alimac 882 Posted December 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hi alimac this is a strange 1 on me but i dont know the laws that well as there so many to know.I thought you could take someone out as long as you were there to mentor them ie 2ft away at all times.I know your area & they are very good in my eyes with FAC/SGC unlike Tayside they hate guns.I was loading for people that had never shot before last year & this is quite common now a days on shoots & the loader is there to help keep safe & instruct as long they hold SGC + insurance.Was at a shoot last week & a gun went for a black=bird .As for guns in the car boot im speachless yes they are good, there words were that if there asked a question they have to give it too you how it is in law, i was and most keepers etc round here were under the same impression as you... from what i gather from there first e mail its ok to load for someone as you said as they / you own the shooting rights on the said estate for that LET day,if its the lairds day, then him / her being the OWNER OF THE SHOOTING RIGHTS means that only they can accompany a none certificate holder with there gun... yet the keeper of the estate cant take someone out ferreting etc, because they only have PERMISSION TO SHOOT CRAZY FOOLS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deker 3,450 Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 (edited) Guys....I know I am coming to this one a bit late but unless there have been any changes that I am not aware of the "Police etc" have got this wrong. The common mistake is "Owner"....... Its quite simple really..................... ------------------------------------------------------- Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to Police 2002 Exemptions from the requirement to hold a certificate Shot Guns 1968 Act Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows an individual, without holding a shot gun certificate, to borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupiers presence. The presence of the occupier is normally taken to mean within sight and earshot of the individual borrowing the firearm. Rifles 1968 Act Section 16.1 of the Act enables a person to borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and to use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. The term "occupier" is not defined in the Firearms Act, nor has a court clarified its meaning. However, the Firearms Consultative Committee in their 5th Annual Report recommended that the provisions of section 27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 be adopted. This states that "occupier" in relation to any land, other than the foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or fish. ------------------------------------------- As far as I'm aware this is still the position! Cheers Deker Edited December 24, 2007 by Deker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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