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Lesson To Everyone.


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#16 David Aiken

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 05:57 pm

 

DONT  leave your guns or ammo in your car i left a few rounds in my Truck had my Truck broken into and bullets went, today the Police have taken all my guns it dosen't pay to be honest

 

Unfortunately you don't have a leg top stand on because the law states that when your guns/ammo are not in use they MUST be secured in your cabinet. I really do appreciate that you had just left a few rounds in the car, but that's all they need to screw you. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I honestly wouldn't have said anything about the stolen ammo if it had been me. The trouble is you were honest with them and as the saying goes "No good deed goes unpunished".

I really do hope your shooting organisation can get your guns back for you though, as it does seem very harsh that you should be a victim of both a scum-bag and the police.

In the late 90s I took my car in for a service and when I went to pick it up they had placed my shotgun cartridge belt, with 25 cartridges in it, on the front seat. I had forgotten that I had left it in the boot. As the law is different for shotgun shells it probably wouldn't have made any difference had they called the police. As it was they didn't even mention it, but it just shows how easy it is to slip up.  

We are in for a rough time in the future as the powers-that-be look for every way possible to revoke and confiscate.

 

G

 

Really? I was under the impression most gun safety / storage was open to conjecture and differing interpretation and not written in law, just suggestions, as in the home office guide. Also, how can you possibly adhere to this? because the law states that when your guns/ammo are not in use they MUST be secured in your cabinet.   If you are transporting a gun for someone to borrow. you're not using it! 

 

The Home Office Guide says:

 

Transporting Firearms: When firearms are being transported, the certificate holder must take reasonable precautions to make sure that the firearm, ammunition or shotgun is kept safe. If you do not transport firearms and ammunition very often, you should not normally need to have a security device fitted in the vehicle. If your vehicle is left unattended at any time, it is normally safe enough to remove some essential component (where possible) and keep it in your personal possession; for example the bolt from a rifle or the fore-end from a shotgun. Where practicable, firearms and ammunition should be placed where they cannot be seen, eg inside the load carrying area of a locked vehicle. If you frequently transport large quantities of firearms by car and they are often left in circumstances where they may be vulnerable to thieves, you need a higher level of security. You could, for example, keep them in a secured metal container in the boot. A car alarm and immobiliser will provide extra security.

 

Not even asking for a security device, just to be locked and out of sight. Only asking (you could) keep them in a secured metal container in the boot. A car alarm and immobiliser will provide extra security. If you frequently transport large quantities of firearms by car and they are often left in circumstances where they may be vulnerable to thieves

 

So, the ammunition was in a locked vehicle, alarmed out of sight, not regularly transporting large quantities of firearms. Where is the offence?


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#17 Yokel Matt

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 06:05 pm

That's terrible Owen - talk about getting kicked while you're down. Fingers crossed you get them back.... And the thieving b*****d that got you into this mess gets a lesson in Karma!
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#18 foxdropper

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 06:22 pm

A good brief will sort this out mate im sure .Dont know if he does this sort of problem but Clive Reece is a very good man in a sticky situation :victory:


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#19 sussex

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 06:30 pm

[quote name="foxdropper" post="4198707" timestamp="1460658136"]A good brief will sort this out mate im sure .Dont know if he does this sort of problem but Clive Reece is a very good man in a sticky situation :victory:[/quote

Plus one on that FD ..must be worth a call Owen .
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#20 THE STALKER

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:59 pm

Thanks Guys for all your support i am gutted to say the least i have got every thing crossed but don't hold much hope ..



#21 firthy

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:41 pm

Ah mate I really feel for ya fingers and toes crossed for ya mate hopefully ya can get out of this mess mate
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#22 delswal

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:56 pm

A good solicitor ( from the shooting fraternity ) should be able to convince a judge that the ammunition was securely stored and out of view of any prying eyes.

 

It sounds like a knee jerk reaction from the police, your FEO should know enough about you to realise that you made a genuine simple mistake and a caution of  future storage should have sufficed.

 

good luck …..atb, Del


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#23 Graham M

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:01 pm

 

 

DONT  leave your guns or ammo in your car i left a few rounds in my Truck had my Truck broken into and bullets went, today the Police have taken all my guns it dosen't pay to be honest

 

Unfortunately you don't have a leg top stand on because the law states that when your guns/ammo are not in use they MUST be secured in your cabinet. I really do appreciate that you had just left a few rounds in the car, but that's all they need to screw you. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I honestly wouldn't have said anything about the stolen ammo if it had been me. The trouble is you were honest with them and as the saying goes "No good deed goes unpunished".

I really do hope your shooting organisation can get your guns back for you though, as it does seem very harsh that you should be a victim of both a scum-bag and the police.

In the late 90s I took my car in for a service and when I went to pick it up they had placed my shotgun cartridge belt, with 25 cartridges in it, on the front seat. I had forgotten that I had left it in the boot. As the law is different for shotgun shells it probably wouldn't have made any difference had they called the police. As it was they didn't even mention it, but it just shows how easy it is to slip up.  

We are in for a rough time in the future as the powers-that-be look for every way possible to revoke and confiscate.

 

G

 

Really? I was under the impression most gun safety / storage was open to conjecture and differing interpretation and not written in law, just suggestions, as in the home office guide. Also, how can you possibly adhere to this? because the law states that when your guns/ammo are not in use they MUST be secured in your cabinet.   If you are transporting a gun for someone to borrow. you're not using it! 

 

The Home Office Guide says:

 

Transporting Firearms: When firearms are being transported, the certificate holder must take reasonable precautions to make sure that the firearm, ammunition or shotgun is kept safe. If you do not transport firearms and ammunition very often, you should not normally need to have a security device fitted in the vehicle. If your vehicle is left unattended at any time, it is normally safe enough to remove some essential component (where possible) and keep it in your personal possession; for example the bolt from a rifle or the fore-end from a shotgun. Where practicable, firearms and ammunition should be placed where they cannot be seen, eg inside the load carrying area of a locked vehicle. If you frequently transport large quantities of firearms by car and they are often left in circumstances where they may be vulnerable to thieves, you need a higher level of security. You could, for example, keep them in a secured metal container in the boot. A car alarm and immobiliser will provide extra security.

 

Not even asking for a security device, just to be locked and out of sight. Only asking (you could) keep them in a secured metal container in the boot. A car alarm and immobiliser will provide extra security. If you frequently transport large quantities of firearms by car and they are often left in circumstances where they may be vulnerable to thieves

 

So, the ammunition was in a locked vehicle, alarmed out of sight, not regularly transporting large quantities of firearms. Where is the offence?

 

Semantics I'm afraid, because when you are travelling with your guns in the car to or from shooting, OR to sell or lend them, you are in fact using them.

 

If on the other hand you leave the car overnight with guns or ammo in it.......you are NOT using them, you have simply left them in an insecure place whilst YOU are safe in another.

Could argue all night and not agree, so it's not worth it. I just feel bloody sorry for this man for being screwed for being honest, after all if they found the truck but no ammo who would have known.

 

G

 

G


Edited by Graham M, 14 April 2016 - 10:02 pm.


#24 Fieldsporthunter

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:25 pm

[quote name="sussex" post="4198711" timestamp="1460658603"][quote name="foxdropper" post="4198707" timestamp="1460658136"]A good brief will sort this out mate im sure .Dont know if he does this sort of problem but Clive Reece is a very good man in a sticky situation :victory:[/quote

Plus one on that FD ..must be worth a call Owen .[/quote]
Defiantly helped me out of a situation. Highly recommend him.

#25 martin

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 12:33 am

Are you not in SACS Owen,they have their own legal team and they would be keyed right up on this sort of thing,in fairness it probably happens a lot more than you think.....good luck and keep in touch mate.

 

Martin



#26 Deker

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 06:59 am

Rum deal all round, I really hope there is a reasonable outcome for you!

 

:thumbs:



#27 Rabid

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 08:06 am

Sorry to hear that pal, i think it would be first reaction from most forces now a days to take everything first, then consider the options, they want to take them usually, and have the power to do so, but, don't give up, I think you should have some decent ground to stand on, it all comes down to interpretation of the law, and that's what a good brief is all about, been able to put words together that sound right, make the call Owen, get them on the case, my personal view, you don't need a cabinet to be inside the law and be granted an fac, (we all know it's the norm, but not actually the law) so why does the ammo need to be locked in one ? I think 'secure' is the word, and a crucial one in your case, in a locked vehicle, out of sight, alarmed, sounds fairly secure to me.

Yeah we all know it's not a perfect scenario, and hindsight an all that, let's be honest, it must happen a lot people leaving ammo in motors, you was bloody unlucky that night been broken into, don't give in, fight it, I do think you have a case of sorts, and surly a decent firearms team will see sense.

Agreed with the comments, I hope the put as much effort into catching the scum that have done this as they are persecuting you, feel for you and fingers crossed it gets sorted, but strike while the iron is hot, don't let it lie.
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#28 THE STALKER

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 08:17 am

Sorry to hear that pal, i think it would be first reaction from most forces now a days to take everything first, then consider the options, they want to take them usually, and have the power to do so, but, don't give up, I think you should have some decent ground to stand on, it all comes down to interpretation of the law, and that's what a good brief is all about, been able to put words together that sound right, make the call Owen, get them on the case, my personal view, you don't need a cabinet to be inside the law and be granted an fac, (we all know it's the norm, but not actually the law) so why does the ammo need to be locked in one ? I think 'secure' is the word, and a crucial one in your case, in a locked vehicle, out of sight, alarmed, sounds fairly secure to me.

Yeah we all know it's not a perfect scenario, and hindsight an all that, let's be honest, it must happen a lot people leaving ammo in motors, you was bloody unlucky that night been broken into, don't give in, fight it, I do think you have a case of sorts, and surly a decent firearms team will see sense.

Agreed with the comments, I hope the put as much effort into catching the scum that have done this as they are persecuting you, feel for you and fingers crossed it gets sorted, but strike while the iron is hot, don't let it lie.

Already in hand i think Barrister is being contacted today i believe and im off to Crown Court now to lodge an appeal ..



#29 Graham M

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 09:33 am

Best of luck Mr C. I really do hope things turn out well for you.

 

G



#30 air gun ant

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 09:57 am

Good luck Owen, I've never met you but I can tell that you live and breath shooting and country sports! As has been said, strike while the irons hot and keep us informed mate!
Atb ant


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