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Rspca ~ Chastising A Dog


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Some individual dogs,...need to have a straightener,...or they will cause major problems,..and even get themselves killed... Back in the day...I used to be a hard fecker with a dog,...but, over the ye

This thread opens up an interesting insight into how folks think dog digest information   On one side we have the positive reinforcement model, where if you do as I ask I'll give you a treat , how

i agree 100% skycat,im not a professional gun dog trainer but i have owned and trained my own gun dogs and terriers ,i personally find its best all round if you persevere with building the bond requir

Lab makes a good point on this thread which is very often overlooked , that letting the pup lie up for a good stretch of its first year , old timers use to do it and I for one couldn't see the point , it seemed like valuable training time wasted ,

 

Well the reason for it is simple , a pups first year is broken up into two different mindsets , the first is a period of time where it is seperating the positive from the negetive , what makes me feel good and what makes me feel bad

 

So within the first period if the owner offers too much resistance through corrections and discipline seemly to show the pup manners and socialise it , the owner is tagged as a negetive , the pup will still come to its owner in a sterile environment but add distractions and your in trouble

The second period starts with sexuality, it brings drive , cooperation , bonding, alignment it also has set in the dogs mind whats accessible and what offers to much resistance and if the owner is still accessible the pup is 100 whole heartedly ready for training but this is the important issue for this thread is , the pup can take corrections and still feel flow with its owner, the correction is not a full stop , it's simply a detour

 

So while a pup in its first period can be taught actions it won't bridge into a relationship of substance where it feels what the owner feels and wants to fall into line itself until later because if the owner feels good likewise it makes the dog feel good

There is a huge push to train, socialise , teach, discipline at a younger age in today's dog world and still the shelters grow in numbers,

 

Labs grandfather knew through experience the majority of folk today just don't know who to turn to for advice and a lot of a working pups life is taken from pet dog training systems the big difference being that pet dog owner don't need their dog to tune into them for a proper relationship, they just want the pup to stop ripping up the house and not pull on the lead

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Graham m. Or anyone interested. I once ran a field test with 2 handlers, spaniel and Labrador over sugar beet. I had a launcher over a brow and had the handlers keep there dogs at sit. I then asked the handlers to retrieve the dummy whilst the dog watched. Well gentlemen, I think you you know where this was going. How to send a dog for a retrieve when you you had no idea yourself. Yes. I agree, dogs nose and all that,but the point was, did the handler have any idea.?? I'm clearly blathering but to be honest, it tested the handlers.

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Casso: some very good points in your last post. However, I think that the main reason there are so many dogs in shelters these days is not because pet owners do too much training etc with their pups, but more that those people haven't a real clue about what dogs really are. Most 'pet' training is aimed at switching off a dog's natural instincts: chase, grab, shake, kill etc. It is all about killing the dog's drive, BUT, if the owner doesn't allow the dog to at least engage in some activities which allow it the freedom to behave naturally, then the lid of the pot called dog drive will eventually be pushed off when the dog boils over. Of course, it depends on the dog's breeding, natural prey drive and its temperament.

I meet a woman with an exceptionally bright and interesting Collie type mongrel. She sent it away to boot camp to 'be trained', for which, read 'zombified'. She wants a little robot dog, not a living, breathing, full of life animal. I feel so sorry for that dog. Of course, the boot camp didn't serve much purpose at all, because whilst it was there, it did everything it was told to do, and when it got home, she found herself back at square one, despite having been 'shown' the commands that the boot camp had told her would work on her dog.

Now she is taking the dog, and herself, to a one on one trainer, which does seem to be helping a little. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the dog at all, and the fault is all in her: she is a limp, ineffectual, very sweet lady, who has no idea what motivates dogs who has been brain washed by the whole modern training thing and believes that no correction is necessary.

 

The points about leaving a dog until it is one year old before training must surely be taken with a large pinch of salt. Surely any dog, even a purpose-bred gun dog, needs socialising, basic recall training, and at least some sort of engagement play/training with its owner before it begins specialised working training? Or does this actually work with such a dog? Interested to know.

 

I would hate to think what we wouldn't achieve if we left a lurcher pup to its own devices for its first year. If it was left in a kennel and paddock it would be desperately under-socialised when it came to dealing with the outside world. If it learned nothing about how to engage with its owner what chance would it have in the field as a sensible and integrated part of the human-dog team?

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Skycat, I've met many folks who don't even know what they're particular breed of dog was bred for in the first place!

No homework done before they get the dog.

So they really don't stand much chance of a decent life, if they don't even know how to stimulate /train them.

It can be saddening /frustrating to see.

Atb

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Graham m. Or anyone interested. I once ran a field test with 2 handlers, spaniel and Labrador over sugar beet. I had a launcher over a brow and had the handlers keep there dogs at sit. I then asked the handlers to retrieve the dummy whilst the dog watched. Well gentlemen, I think you you know where this was going. How to send a dog for a retrieve when you you had no idea yourself. Yes. I agree, dogs nose and all that,but the point was, did the handler have any idea.?? I'm clearly blathering but to be honest, it tested the handlers.

I do see where you are going with this as I used to take my two eldest granddaughters with me when my Lab was a puppy. I used to throw the dummy and one of them was sent for it. The next throw was retrieved by the other, and so on. He was so full of life he wanted to get in on the act and used to race them for the pick-up and from then on it was just steadying and stopping him from running in. He wasn't just a working dog though; he was also a family pet, which is why he was allowed a lot more leeway than a fully trained working dog would be. Even so he never let me down or embarrassed me and would NEVER chase after anything in the field (anyone remember Fenton)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmpONxJ7JSw :toast::toast::toast:

 

Lost him 2nd June 2014. Couldn't bring myself to get another. I now take my granddaughters Yorkie-cross out with me..Bloody useless but loves me to bits :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Edited by Graham M
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Casso: some very good points in your last post. However, I think that the main reason there are so many dogs in shelters these days is not because pet owners do too much training etc with their pups, but more that those people haven't a real clue about what dogs really are. Most 'pet' training is aimed at switching off a dog's natural instincts: chase, grab, shake, kill etc. It is all about killing the dog's drive, BUT, if the owner doesn't allow the dog to at least engage in some activities which allow it the freedom to behave naturally, then the lid of the pot called dog drive will eventually be pushed off when the dog boils over. Of course, it depends on the dog's breeding, natural prey drive and its temperament.

I meet a woman with an exceptionally bright and interesting Collie type mongrel. She sent it away to boot camp to 'be trained', for which, read 'zombified'. She wants a little robot dog, not a living, breathing, full of life animal. I feel so sorry for that dog. Of course, the boot camp didn't serve much purpose at all, because whilst it was there, it did everything it was told to do, and when it got home, she found herself back at square one, despite having been 'shown' the commands that the boot camp had told her would work on her dog.

Now she is taking the dog, and herself, to a one on one trainer, which does seem to be helping a little. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the dog at all, and the fault is all in her: she is a limp, ineffectual, very sweet lady, who has no idea what motivates dogs who has been brain washed by the whole modern training thing and believes that no correction is necessary.

 

The points about leaving a dog until it is one year old before training must surely be taken with a large pinch of salt. Surely any dog, even a purpose-bred gun dog, needs socialising, basic recall training, and at least some sort of engagement play/training with its owner before it begins specialised working training? Or does this actually work with such a dog? Interested to know.

 

I would hate to think what we wouldn't achieve if we left a lurcher pup to its own devices for its first year. If it was left in a kennel and paddock it would be desperately under-socialised when it came to dealing with the outside world. If it learned nothing about how to engage with its owner what chance would it have in the field as a sensible and integrated part of the human-dog team?

Very informative post penny

I do engage with pups as the grow but my major interest is building conifidence I don't put them in situations they can't emotionally deal with its all positive interaction , I encourage behavior which creates impulse control , that is to say a pup can be lured into the down and fed there , no commands or corrections , what I'm trying to instill is the less I do the more I get ,

The best form of control I feel is where the dog feels he controls its owner, he grounds himself and calms himself to get what he wants, all his early months is based around him being comfortable in or around me, long walks where he gets fed as we go

I don't bother too much with recall , hes kept on a long line which he trails and will create actions himself to interact or be fed , I have no problem with the pup growing up in s sterile environment where he gets very out of his kennel , walked, fed then back in ,

I don't fry his brain with commands, busy environment other dogs people traffic until he is 100 %secure in himself , so when we do engage him with the big bad world, its just another carry on from the norm no biggie , he doesn't go running off to other dogs or people or whatever the distraction is because we have created a history we have got over the formative months and established a routine which is all he knows

 

I'll give you an example , I have seen lads create monsters due to the modern dog thinking , take a pup out young , introduce a lot of fearful encounters , dogs especially , people , traffic puppy classes , training classes , all seemly to socislise the pup as if something is broken in its make up ,

I've said this for along time on here every pup is born social you just need to keep it that way , fear is the biggest element in changing a dog behavior , the single biggest , I don't encourage it and I don't seek it until I feel the dog is mature enough to deal with it if you get my drift ,

 

i also think when people are used to dealing with certain breeds with certain temperament you might feel it's overkill because a lot of dogs are Imploders lurchers gun dogs etc whereas I raised a pup here as a guard dog who didn't interact with another dog until he was 10 months old, he a Dogo / Cane corso mix he's full on with high energy levels but until I felt I could take him and interact with the outside world I didn't, you introduce fear at a young age to a dog like that you have a monster on your hands , high tempered breeds are Exploders , fear is expressed as aggression

 

Every fecking article on the net I read about such breeds both Dogo and Corso advised a firm hand , experienced owner early socialised don't give him an inch , all that usual , took him out on long quite walks very natural slow puppy raising but I also directed all his energy towards me through a tug item and play so when we did go out he was completely grounded in himself and in me, we had laid don't a focus for his energy in the previous months

 

the first dog he encountered he play bowed and on we went , fear is emotion internalised , aggression is the same emotion expressed,

 

A pup can be attacked by another dog happens plenty but that fear will work its way out eventually , you often hear the phrase the dog just flipped out one day seemly out of the blue , nothing is created in s vacuum if you trace it back every behavior has a root, a growth and a blossoming

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Lab makes a good point on this thread which is very often overlooked , that letting the pup lie up for a good stretch of its first year , old timers use to do it and I for one couldn't see the point , it seemed like valuable training time wasted ,

 

Well the reason for it is simple , a pups first year is broken up into two different mindsets , the first is a period of time where it is seperating the positive from the negetive , what makes me feel good and what makes me feel bad

 

So within the first period if the owner offers too much resistance through corrections and discipline seemly to show the pup manners and socialise it , the owner is tagged as a negetive , the pup will still come to its owner in a sterile environment but add distractions and your in trouble

The second period starts with sexuality, it brings drive , cooperation , bonding, alignment it also has set in the dogs mind whats accessible and what offers to much resistance and if the owner is still accessible the pup is 100 whole heartedly ready for training but this is the important issue for this thread is , the pup can take corrections and still feel flow with its owner, the correction is not a full stop , it's simply a detour

 

So while a pup in its first period can be taught actions it won't bridge into a relationship of substance where it feels what the owner feels and wants to fall into line itself until later because if the owner feels good likewise it makes the dog feel good

There is a huge push to train, socialise , teach, discipline at a younger age in today's dog world and still the shelters grow in numbers,

 

Labs grandfather knew through experience the majority of folk today just don't know who to turn to for advice and a lot of a working pups life is taken from pet dog training systems the big difference being that pet dog owner don't need their dog to tune into them for a proper relationship, they just want the pup to stop ripping up the house and not pull on the lead

spot on :thumbs:

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