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Fancy A 99S In .177


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#1 bernie67

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:10 pm

well  as title says thinking of one of these so contacted sfs to see if they would do one tuned i know they do the imp.but they said would only do in .22 as they would not be able to get the power up, said it would only get 9 ft lbs .so my question is if this a full power say 11.5 ft lbs why would they be losing power by tuning?



#2 Tron

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 06:53 pm

The reason Bernie is that a springer is more efficient in .22, in order to get the same power levels in .177 the spring energy has to be increased, which, with normal break barrels with a longer transfer port than the HW 97/99 models and the TX rifle, This causes a harsher firing cycle, this also applies to Pre charged rifles, the downside of which is shown by more air being used in .177 in identical models both with the same power outputs.


Edited by Tron, 02 July 2015 - 07:13 pm.

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#3 bernie67

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 07:16 pm

thanks for the reply Tron.so .177 is not very good in springers?



#4 Tron

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 08:08 pm

No  bernie, I didnt say that,... The upside of a good .177 rifle is the velocity of a sub 12 FPE gun is a pretty flat trajectory which if produced by a .22  gun would be classed as a FAC gun. so basicly a .22 FAC  rifle shooting a 14.3  pellet  at 800 FPS would have a energy level of =20..3 FPE. a .177 rifle  shooting a 8.2 pellet at 800 FPS would have a energy level of =11.6 FPE. SO although the energy FPSecond  would be different the trajectory flight of both calibers would be much the same. .... A sub 12 FPE .22 running at sub 12 FPE using a 14.3 g pellet would be around 600 FPS giving  a energy level of 11.43 FPE.



#5 Rez

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 11:57 pm

No  bernie, I didnt say that,... The upside of a good .177 rifle is the velocity of a sub 12 FPE gun is a pretty flat trajectory which if produced by a .22  gun would be classed as a FAC gun. so basicly a .22 FAC  rifle shooting a 14.3  pellet  at 800 FPS would have a energy level of =20..3 FPE. a .177 rifle  shooting a 8.2 pellet at 800 FPS would have a energy level of =11.6 FPE. SO although the energy FPSecond  would be different the trajectory flight of both calibers would be much the same. .... A sub 12 FPE .22 running at sub 12 FPE using a 14.3 g pellet would be around 600 FPS giving  a energy level of 11.43 FPE.

"No  bernie, I didnt say that,..."

 

Tron covering his arse there :) Good explanation though.

 

"Real" Imps are only in .22 bernie... its there reason. They are tuned fieldsports rifles. Thats the idea from the start.

 

177 springers kick a little more [it takes more to get the lighter pellet moving], 22's are sweeter. What you lack in flat trajectory with a .22, you make up for in the shooting process. Learn your ranges and they are devastating against game. HFT course are pretty much only set up for for 177. Some shots are almost impossible for the looping 22 pellet.

 

What do you plan on using the 99 for?


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#6 bernie67

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:24 pm

thanks for the reply rez.i bought a sfs tuned 97 kt about 2 years ago with no previous shooting  ability get to shoot it from time to time at work in the workshop.and on a bonus day like today even get a shot a feral pigeon that comes in to the workshop.then i bought a s410 which i find is surgical shooting..now i am not bragging about my shooting ability not at all.i have set a 32 to 35 millimeter bottle top 38 meters down the workshop and can hit it 2 out of 4 shots with the 97kt can't do like some and put pellet on pellet,but feel i have improved and this is what i like about springers it's about you and not the gun your trying to master it.anyway back to the question  i put forward it makes sense what you are saying 177 needing more air to push pellet and so will be a bit more harsh in recoil.but only having these two rifles i do like the flatness of 177 or am i wrong to compare 177 precharged to 22 springer.



#7 Tron

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:58 pm

Dont get confused there Bernie,look at my reply to your op, in which I did state the diference between a break barrel and a HW97/ or a AA TX. the major diference between them is the underlevers have a extremely short transfer port compared to the majority of break barrel guns, FACT. this is alone that means that such rifles can reach sub 12 FPE levels quite easily without having to resort to mega spring poundage. to get the same kind of smooth shooting in a break barrel  gun is not allways easy, some in .177 usually cant find the smoothness that the underlevers do. A PC rifle has a different firing signature than the springer. as a closer, I watched a very good?, nay excellent shooter using a SFS HW 95 springer shooting at one of the Penkridge open field target comps a couple of years ago and was amazed at his accuracy plus" The allmost hardly noticable recoil on every shot", I shoot lots of guns over my 60 plus years in shooting/ tuning and I must admit there are not many true experts in the "Tuning field" but there are a small number who know what they are doing.


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#8 bernie67

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 11:19 pm

Thanks for the reply Tron.this has got me thinking.may have to opt for a AATX200HC  in 177. but will give it some thought wanted something lighter than 97kt.



#9 Tron

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:12 am

Thinking about springers, I have seen somewere a video about a SFS tuned springer that was shown firing I cant remember what gun but the shooter put a pellet on top of the scope turret and fired the rifle, the pellet moved a fraction but did not fall off! that was no small achievment in a springer putting out over 11 FPE. I dare say there are a few other tuners out there who are just as good you just have to read forums like this to find out who they are.



#10 Coypu Hunter

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:40 am

That would probably be Si Pittaway -- check out VerminHuntersTV on YouTube, he has a bunch of very accurate SFS-tuned springers that he's demonstrated on camera. Problem is, you'll want to buy all of them... :yes:


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#11 mark williams

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 07:50 am

Very interesting read.

           I have just bought the Air Arms TX 200 HC .177 and find her to be very accurate indeed.We were setting targets of three colored spinner in front of each other and offset so as to give a "threaded shot effect" and we would nominate a colored spinner to each other.

           For a springer off a bench rest she was excellent and kept well in there with the pcp`s.

           The T-Rex is not a light gun Bernie but she sits "rock steady" in shooting sticks - hide shooting is my method rather than the "mooch around" style.

 

                         Anyway good luck with your choice   :thumbs:


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#12 charlie caller

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 09:34 am

You can get the power up to just under 12ftlbs with a .177 99s, but you will GENERALLY have to change the spring, as the standard spring produces around 10.5ftlbs in .177 the imp is tuned using a very short spring, and as said with .22 being more efficient than .177 it will not make the power, even the .22 imps are only producing around 10.6ftlbs when new but I expect will creep up to around 11ftlb with use,the trade off of course with putting a better spring in the .177 is it becomes snappier, however use the expensive Ultimox 226 ptfe grease, on your .177 after tuning, top hat, polish, etc, and it will make around 11.5 easily, or at least mine did, the 226 ptfe and quantum hot sauce greases really are that good :D


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#13 bernie67

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 06:26 pm

thanks for the reply guys i was not looking for something that had to be so close to 12 ft lbs just be light do the job to 45 meters (can't see myself being confident of even trying that range)but will be easy to shoot and 177.recommendations welcome.



#14 jonnie bravo

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 07:38 pm

I've just bought a 2nd hand .177 99. I'll let you know how I get on with it, only put a couple of pellets through, the cocking is fairly smooth but quite heavy, the firing is pretty good but definitely too twangy! First thing will be a strip down and relube, and fit a PTFE sleeve that should reduce the twang. We'll see what it performs like down at the range!

#15 jonnie bravo

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:56 pm

Well had the 99 down the range tonight, just on open sights.

What a lovely little gun! Groups were 2 inches mind! But no doubt with a scope on they would be much tighter. Might throw the Bushnell on it next time.

Cocking effort was quite stiff. The recoil was pretty light just a nice little nudge back into the shoulder with very little flip.

The firing cycle was definitely twangy so needs sorting. Think a drop in kit should sort that out no probs. Polish the piston up as well and see how it shoots then.

The 4.52 exacts were a wee bit loose though so I wouldn't mind testing some wider pellets. Maybe 4.53 exacts? I also here that superdomes are highly recommended for the 99....

On a side note I had a play with a mates Walther LGV challenger in .177 and it was stunning to shoot. Super smooth, quiet, little recoil and super accurate. Currently trying to twist his hand for it lol
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