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Experimental Blade Carbon/stainless Blade.


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#31 midnight

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:52 am

Not a huge amount I'm afraid . The flat stock is expensive . Here is the thinnest (cheapest ) they have its 38wide x 2.6mm thick, over £60 a meter !
I have to pay postage on that . All the abrasives for profiling then drilling before it can be sent off for heat treating .....
That's thick enough for a filleting knife and about £15-£17 for the steel . Then heat treating and grinding/ polishing to follow .
It's superb stuff but about as advanced as a nasa space station , so so expensive .
Plus sides are it will hold an edge like carbon steel and no discolouration or rusting like any other stainless , I think left untreated after salt water exposure might start to effect it , but it would any stainless ?
I dunno if I ever explained why this steel is so good ?
The problem with stainless is , it's hard to get the carbon into the iron once there is other elements added for stain resistance . So you always end up with soft blades that won't hold an edge , they simply can't be hardened enough to keep sharp , most stainless including the "surgical grades" are designed to be sharp for a brief time then disposed and usually in the high 40's hrc . Well the minimum we expect for edge holding is 55+ so you can see the steel is pretty much useless . But it's cheap !! Also to that the grain structure of standard stainless is massive . If you think of sand on the beach , some is cause grit , some smooth as flour . All other stainless is like a grit in grain structure , it can't be ground fine and stay there , the edge will crumble away really fast .
This RW34 changed all that , it's got that carbon content we need and can be hardened to over 60 hrc ! Also the grain structure is very very fine , in part because It's a powdered steel technology , so it's made then I dunno how but literally turned to powder put in a vacuum furnace and under crushing power and Intense heat bought into one piece , this allows for superb blending at a micro level . I have no idea what else they do to it because it's over my head and the guy that sells me it (he supplies Purdy with the Damascus for here shotguns) doesn't seem to fully understand it eather , so there must be witchcraft to it to ha ha .

#32 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:15 am

Sounds like the real deal! Just let me know what you would want for a fillet blank and i am happy to pay up front for it before you order. Depending how much it is and how my experimental blade turns out i might have another.


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#33 riohog

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 12:27 pm

Sounds like the real deal! Just let me know what you would want for a fillet blank and i am happy to pay up front for it before you order. Depending how much it is and how my experimental blade turns out i might have another.

just ring  richard ayres   barmund  international   griff  get yourself  some ;)



#34 midnight

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:44 pm


Sounds like the real deal! Just let me know what you would want for a fillet blank and i am happy to pay up front for it before you order. Depending how much it is and how my experimental blade turns out i might have another.

just ring  richard ayres   barmund  international   griff  get yourself  some ;)
Ha ha you got his name wrong Rio and what good would it do him ?
He would have to pay £200 just to heat treat the one blank after profiling it !! Then what attack it with an angle grinder and ruin the temper ???

Rio , do I detect a hint of tw@t in that post ?
Hope not , you just started making knives there's along way to go in your learning !
I know where to buy a Lamborghini, doesn't mean I know how to use it !!
I've never commented on you knives etc , or rubbished your posts . I can do ??

Your alway w@nkong on about your steel , I'm not sure you understand it , it's not hard to get you know , it's just another steel . Brisa in Finland sell it all day long, so you got your plonker pulled when who ever told you it's hard to get !!
And you know the term "tougher" you quote in your claims about yours steel refers to a steel that will tear before snapping ??

#35 riohog

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:49 pm

wtf are you on?  i dont rubbish your posts either   just keep your arrogance to yourself i dont wash with me fella if the man wants to buy steel  he can do so  .

 

 

now run along  theres a good lad  ;)



#36 riohog

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 10:00 pm

and another thing matt bbyou want to call me a twat  you come around my house and say it to my face  ,id be delighted to see you  !



#37 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 10:06 pm

right lads you both had your say lets not turn this into a slagging match, some of the other forums on here seem to go that way but not often on this one so lets keep it that way. Happy to listen to advice from any one with experience and also a man of my word so will take said amount of steel from midnight. Not about to go into mass production so not planning to buy wholesale but thanks for the tip rihog.


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#38 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 10:18 pm

Anyway i think i am on to a winner. Dragged out the anvil and fired up the old forge today. And it went very well indeed.

 

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Started on the file blank, bit overdid the heat at the tip as can be seen.

 

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Thought it ma have knackered it but ground up alright.

 

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Can just see the carbon core.

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Then on to the HSS blade, worked a treat.

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Weld flattened in nicely and none let go

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Ground up nicely without any cracks or pitting to the stainless surface.

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Well thats where both blanks are now.

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#39 midnight

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 10:23 pm

Good work griff.
I'm way beyond a slagging match , I think I've done my bit on here without getting into it with another "craftsman "
But I will say you bore me Rio , your product bored me ..
Your challenge bored me .
That anvil has seen some graft !!!!
I reckon you are on to something with this project ?!

#40 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 10:29 pm

Cheers midnight, think the HSS blade is going to be a beauty.

 

Thinking of antler for the handle but don't have any at the moment. Have a burl so might cut a bit off that.



#41 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 03:51 pm

Made this up lastnight after tea so no more attacking things with the angle grinder and burning the steel you will be pleased to know midnight. Made from an old wheelbarrow wheel and a sander belt mounted on the lathe. Deflate the tire, mount the belt then inflate again, 5 miniutes with this is worth an hour with the grinder.

 

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Makes a nice smooth job with no hollows.

 

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Off work today with a trapped nerve in my shoulder and no it wasn't hammering away yesterday that did it, had it since Saturday, anyway back out to the shed, fire lit, hot water bottle strapped to my shoulder and grinding away at the blank.

 

Couple of shape ideas, went for the one that retained the most steel.

 

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Carbon core clearly seen when heated gently.

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#42 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:18 pm

Now have it 3 x non magnetic treated. Not like me but been doing a bit of reading on tempering M2 HSS as i want to get it right. It speaks of double tempering also holding temper temperature for an hour or so. This is to get the optimal 65 HRC, just wondering how important these parts of the process are for my knife blade? If i got up to high 50's HRC i would be well chuffed. What you recon midnight?

 

Bare in mind i only have a coal forge and a butane torch so would be difficult to maintain a steady 500 deg (bronze) for an extender period. 1hr per 25mm thick so thinking about it that maybe isn't that long for a 5mm thick blade?


Edited by GruffaloGriff, 17 March 2015 - 09:41 am.


#43 midnight

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 11:06 am

Bloody hell , you get there fast and the core looks really good !!
Heat treat off the coals just above, keep it moving to avoid hot spots . Bring it up really slowly to avoid grain growth. This is where the bit you burnt will show if it's gone bad . Quench as you would . But if I was you just temper in your kitchen oven for the time frames for a very uncomplicated and good result . You can pre Heat and they are accurate enough.
Double temper is easy in the oven , 65 hrc is really really hard for a knife , but it will hold that edge well if cutting soft organic stuff . 60 hrc is plenty I recon .
Really impressed with everything so far .
I love the lathe conversion idea .
There is a professional product from italy I think that is very similar , the wheel is rubber and expands when spinnig to grab the belt .
When your tempered and ready to grind , quick on the abrasive then quench in water . Over and over again until you happy .
I think you should add a guard to it , it's worth it on this one ?

#44 GruffaloGriff

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 02:08 pm

Thanks midnight, think i might make small mock up of the same materials to play with the heating/ tempering, don't want to mess this one up!

 

"I think you should add a guard to it"  Do yo mean the wheel or the knife?



#45 midnight

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Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:58 pm

The knife ha ha !!
Fook guards on tools they cause accidents 😉
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