The Ultimate Duffus trap & (D)Evolution Of The Duffus Trap

[Nicepix 5,650]

The first batch of Flatpacks I received were around 65mm across the body, were shiny steel, had no maker's name endorsed and are stainless throughout. The body feels to be a thicker material than the third batch. I think I got them around April 2012.

 

The second batch were similar, but had the maker's name on the side, had a slighty grey powder coat type finish and are around 70mm wide. They are stainless throughout, but I suspect the bodies are galvanised. They came around June 2014.

 

The third batch are more grey in appearance, 74mm wide and stainless throughout. The body does not seem as strong as the other two types. They came a few months after the second batch after business picked up.

 

I also have some regular types that are similar to the third batch, but the wires are definitely softer as I can bend the trigger loops without pliers.

[Mr Wasp 187]

Ok, back on the laptop. The ipad is NOT the tool for this

 

For the benefit of flat pack, ive taken a few close up pics for them to look at, please excuse the darkness of the photos, but the light was failing when i took them. If they want better/clearer photos i can take some more in decent daylight.

 

Proper detailed drawing with dimensions to follow, (Matt, will get this done over the weekend, no point doing it with beer goggles on )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will add my comments in on the tech drawing.

[earth-thrower 490]

All credit to the company for listening to its customers.

 

The MkII Duffus I have, endorsed J Duffus & Son, but not the patent, is 60mm across the base of the body and the wires are 55mm across at the widest point.

 

I have managed to squeeze some of the latest FP Ultimates to around 65mm across the body rather than the 74mm they come as. 74mm is far too wide and entails extra work to open up the tunnel above the 'groove' the mole runs through if you know what I mean? The original FP Ultimate is 65mm across the body and IMO is the perfect size. The narrower you make the trap the harder it is to get the spring to work properly. This may be why they have gone wider.

 

The other thing is that if you want a trap that works straight out of the box with no work you will have to pay for extra machining at the factory. Firstly the angle of the trigger loops will need to be altered so they are nearer the trapping loops than they come at present. Secondly the cutting process of the wire causes a random amount of swarf.........

 

 

This swarf needs to be ground away so as the trigger does not hang at the last point of contact........

 

 

That sort of work on hard, tempered stainless steel would cost a lot of money. Personally I would prefer to tune the traps myself and save that cost.

 

IMO the analogy of a mole trap being like a car isn't a fair representation. When you get a computer or smart phone you have to customise it with the programs or apps you want. It doesn't come fully loaded.

Well, i cant stress enough, the importance of getting that "trigger hook",right,...

[earth-thrower 490]

 

 

Thanks Paul, will look forward to the pics.

 

Clive, thanks for that informative post I have to say that the one really good thing I've noticed about this sample they've sent me is that the burr on the end of the trigger hook isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Whether that's something to do with the new material I can't say.

 

It might be because someone had a word with them about it last year

 

 

Does the one you are talking about have SS trigger loops? This little beauty is SS throughout

 

But you are right; the retaining bar 'snags' on any burr left on the end of that hook whilst I understand what you are saying about not wanting to pay them to sort it, something in my bones tells me that they will want to sort it out themselves. Chris comes across as an engineer at heart, and most importantly, one with enough pride to want to be able to make a really good quality product

 

 

 

Edited to add, if anyone is willing to cross post this to other places (APMC, Facebook etc) then please do The more input the better

 

Im with you Matt, if any problems with the "triggers/hook" can be solved, at the manufacturing stage, then all the better ?

[earth-thrower 490]

Right guys, just a brief reminder of the story so far:

 

The other day, I contacted Flat Pack, not really expecting a reply, and directed them to this thread.

 

This is the message they sent me that evening:

 

 

 

Dear Matt

 

Thank you for your message, we have read the link with interest. We constantly

monitor our traps, and work hard to produce good quality

traps. In the last 12 months we have put further checks in place to ensure the

width of the barrels is kept within a 2mm tolerance after

comments from customers that they were slightly wider.

 

Would you be interested in trialling one of our narrow barrel traps? We made a

very small batch about 12 months ago, it would be good to get

your feedback, the measurement across the slots is 54mm. If you'd like to send

me your address, I'll get the last one in the post to you.

 

We always strive to listen to our customers and welcome suggestions. All our

traps now have stainless steel barrels and are available with

either galvanised springs and loops or stainless springs and loops. The

measurement across the slots is 60-62mm.

 

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

Regards

 

 

The Flat Pack

 

 

 

Anyway, as promised, the trap arrived today.

 

First impressions are that it's a very solid, well made trap. Although it's a narrower version of what they currently sell, it's made out of stainless steel throughout, and I have to say that it's very nice

 

There are no burrs to the edges, and it sets and fires OK.

 

Now, on to what I don't like about it.

 

First of all, the barrel itself is still to wide for my liking. I've measured it with a rule, and it's 67mm from outside edge to outside edge. I can't remember how wide the original JND trap is (Paul?), but this is about the same as my 'squeezed' traps.

 

Secondly, and to my mind most importantly, the holes through which the trigger wires pass is too big. Flatpack (and all modern trap makers) use a smaller gauge wire for the triggers, but put it through a much bigger hole.

 

The issue with this is that the wire has to pass from one side of the hole to the other before it actually starts disengaging itself from the trigger. That 3-5mm that it has to move is exaggerated the further down the trigger loop it goes, so 3-5 mm becomes 8-12mm play at the bottom of the trigger loop.

 

We get over this by tuning the triggers to make them more sensitive; which in itself is fine, though time consuming. One of the downsides to that tuning up is that the part of the trap that you don't want to be more sensitive, ie the top, is then very easily set off when you are covering the trap or whatever.

 

Is there anything more annoying than opening up a run, shaping the base and fitting a trap to it to have one end fire as you cover it?

 

There is a much more fundamental issue here as well. When you buy a new car, you don't usually get told to get the engine tuned before you use it. Mole traps should be no different

 

Anyway, here is a very short video which I hope will help to visualise what I'm trying in my ham fisted way to explain.

 

 

Apologies for the quality of the film guys; I had a devil of a game with the tube tonight.

 

 

 

As I wrote earlier, Flatpack have been fantastic throughout this debate, and have offered to try and make a more exact replica of an original Duffus trap, so all credit to them.

 

Whilst it's not possible at present to buy a really good Duffus type mole trap that's made in the UK, Flatpack offer the next best thing, and I can't commend them enough for having an open mind and entering into discussions about this.

Good on you, Matt, you seem to have got the ball rolling,here,...lol,...producing a 'new trap', based on the 'old design',should be an improvement.

[Matt 160]

and not one single person has commented on my ladylike hands and fantastic nails

 

Thanks for the feedback guys; keep it coming

 

We could, given time and the right manufacturer, end up with a really good trap, that's made in the UK and fit for purpose

[Mr Wasp 187]

and not one single person has commented on my ladylike hands and fantastic nails

 

Thanks for the feedback guys; keep it coming

 

We could, given time and the right manufacturer, end up with a really good trap, that's made in the UK and fit for purpose

 

I was gonna, but i thought i had pushed things too far tonight. I didnt want a rambo style attack, as you would have no doubt, broke a nail or two

 

If this project comes off, i can see a bright future for flat pack AND i can see other mole catching interests taking a positive leap of faith towards the flat pack trap & company.

[Nicepix 5,650]

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

[J Darcy 5,871]

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

Best post ever...!

[Matt 160]

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

 

That's a fair point Nicepix and one that I myself have wrestled with for a few years

 

The thing is, a determined amateur will always find a way of doing it themselves. They can buy several DVDs, books, book on one of the many courses available or even, dare I say it, read this forum.

 

It won't make them molecatchers

 

Another advantage of a company like FP taking this on is that they don't supply in large volumes to wholesalers or garden centres; which is the main source of traps for those determined amateurs.

 

The fact is, there is more than enough information out there to make traps workable already. Having a trap from one supplier that doesn't require ten minutes fettling before you can actually use it will make little or no difference to those of us running large numbers of traps and providing a professional service

 

I'd personally be more worried about the people selling training courses off the back of this 'dying art', writing books about the simplicity of molecatching or romanticising the lifestyle with films than a company that is willing to make a trap that's actually more like the original that was easily available to anyone for fifty odd years

[perthshire keeper 1,237]

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

how true

however like i always say to mr farmer when he tells me that "old bill,bob,jim,ect from the village catches my moles"

 

theirs a difference between some one who can catch moles and a mole catcher

 

as i side note..... is it silly i was all giddy about this new trap lark and couldent sleep last night!?

[Matt 160]

as i side note..... is it silly i was all giddy about this new trap lark and couldn't sleep last night!?

 

 

[Tiercel 6,986]

Those of you who wish for a mole trap that works straight out of the box and doesn't need tuning ought to think about whether they are also happy about Joe Public being able to buy such a trap.

It's the same with any business you will have competition when people see your making a wage out of a job. The problem is that even though they do impact temporarily, they never last. As once they find out that it is hard work to get to where you are at at that moment, they soon give up.

 

With my business people on face book have been offering the same service as myself for half what I charge, but once they add up the costs they soon stop. One woman was even advertising for a quarter of what I charge, think she lasted a week once she found out how much it was actually costing her.

 

TC

Edited February 27, 2015 by tiercel

[outandabout 27]

I used to help my grandad set mole traps when I was a kid, decent quality scissor traps bought from the local agri merchant. British made, decent construction and had reasonable springs. These were readily available and they worked.

 

Different story now, chinese tat on offer from 99% of shops and online. I know what you're saying JD, but even if FP update their traps, I think it's far worse than it's ever been for the amateurs.

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

Very true Tiercel...

 

I have always faught shy of educating folk about any form of trapping,.more so, the activities that earn't my wages.

Many times, I have been asked by reps and suchlike, to give a demo or a wee semina,.with slides, etc..

 

"Oh we will pay you well",...they used to say....

 

I thought long and hard about such offers, ....but came to the conclusion that it would be foolish to school the opposition..What good would a one off fee of a few hundred quid be,.. to the carnage caused ..

Obviously, over the years, you meet up with like minded souls and it would be mean not to help out a friend..

 

NO,.my big problem with teaching folk the mole trapping business,..was never with mole catchers or even, 'would be mole catchers'.

They can learn on the job, and good luck to them..

Back in the day, same as Matt and others,.I was a Commercial Pest Controller,..'Rats, Mice and Crawling Insects'...

 

I had, my day in the sun with that game, and I've no regrets, certainly not financialy anyway...££££££...

But, I was always conscious of the fact, that to a great many 'Rat and Mice men and Bo weevil ' hunters,...the mole trapping job,.. was a bit of mystery.

So,.when I sold off all my Pest Control Contracts and Service Agreements, I made darn sure that I kept my knowledge of Rural Pest Control to myself.. The Commercial pesters had plenty of other earners to go at, their Bugs, their Roaches, Bird Proofing,..etc, etc,..so I thought to keep at least one proven earner back for myself,..a kind of retirement thing...money in the bank...a nice gentle job for a ex rabbiter.

 

Sadly,..it was not to be, and as I have stated, the 'Cat is now firmly out of the bag'...

 

As for today, an easy DVD or Book to produce,..would be on the subject of trapping...

Photos, images and exciting footage, depicting the trapping game, is out there for the taking,.as is jotting down the hard won knowledge and experiences,.. of others...

I have no problem with this,..used to have, but not any more...

SO,..we are back to a survival of the smartest scenario,..and as in Nature, some will live and some will die... .

Edited February 27, 2015 by Phil Lloyd