The Ultimate Duffus trap & (D)Evolution Of The Duffus Trap

[Matt 160]

I'd like to say a huge thank you to Flatpack for discussing this issue.

 

We may not have the perfect Duffus trap yet, but at least we have one British trap manufacturer who's prepared to listen to their customers and discuss the issue.

 

All credit to them.

 

In the meantime, I've had at least 3 phone calls from worried customers thinking about cancelling their trap orders. Please don't do anything like that just yet; any change we can help institute will take a while to come to fruition.

 

Flatpack have sent me a sample trap, basically a narrower version of their standard trap, and I'll try and post a short video up later today or tomorrow showing it to you all.

 

Any changes to their existing design will cost a significant amount of time and money, so when it happens it needs to be done right

 

At the moment; Flatpack are working flat out to keep up with the demand they have at this (their peak) time of year. When they have more time available, they've suggested that they will work with us to build a more exact copy of the original trap.

 

In the meantime, later this evening I'll try and knock together a short film.

 

Please keep the comments coming, this thread is being read far and wide, and thank you to everyone for contributing.

[perthshire keeper 1,237]

I'd like to say a huge thank you to Flatpack for discussing this issue.

 

We may not have the perfect Duffus trap yet, but at least we have one British trap manufacturer who's prepared to listen to their customers and discuss the issue.

 

All credit to them.

 

In the meantime, I've had at least 3 phone calls from worried customers thinking about cancelling their trap orders. Please don't do anything like that just yet; any change we can help institute will take a while to come to fruition.

 

Flatpack have sent me a sample trap, basically a narrower version of their standard trap, and I'll try and post a short video up later today or tomorrow showing it to you all.

 

Any changes to their existing design will cost a significant amount of time and money, so when it happens it needs to be done right

 

At the moment; Flatpack are working flat out to keep up with the demand they have at this (their peak) time of year. When they have more time available, they've suggested that they will work with us to build a more exact copy of the original trap.

 

In the meantime, later this evening I'll try and knock together a short film.

 

Please keep the comments coming, this thread is being read far and wide, and thank you to everyone for contributing.

excellent! its been talked about a lot and if it happens then GREAT!

theirs only 3 maybe 4 things i would like to see change

1.trigger holes a LOT smaller

2. trap like you say 60mm wide

3.the trigger material has to be strong enugh not to be bent by a mole but still tuneable

4. if i have to be picky..the arms a few mm longer and the loops slightly smaller

 

but over all well done to them for atleast thinking about it..and it good to know that our voices are being heard

[OldTrapCollector 376]

I might be able to post something this weekend about the (d)evolution of the Duffus design, with photos of the various models over time, if that would help? I think I have about 30 different 'Duffus' models and some of a similar logic

[outandabout 27]

Great news Matt and thanks for the update.

[Matt 160]

I might be able to post something this weekend about the (d)evolution of the Duffus design, with photos of the various models over time, if that would help? I think I have about 30 different 'Duffus' models and some of a similar logic

 

That would be a great help OTC At present, Hampshire Wasp is doing a great deal of work behind the scenes with drawings and measurements for Flatpack

 

On a side note, I've just been reading a book by David Imrie (who was mentioned in the work by Guy N Smith) it's an enjoyable read even if his thoughts on molecatching don't quite fit in with mine anyway, he mentions the McPherson trap from BlairGowrie, which I presume is the second incarnation of the JND?

 

Perhaps you could confirm that? The book is from 1949.

 

Keep the information coming; as I said earlier, this thread is being read far and wide

[perthshire keeper 1,237]

I might be able to post something this weekend about the (d)evolution of the Duffus design, with photos of the various models over time, if that would help? I think I have about 30 different 'Duffus' models and some of a similar logic

ohh yes please!

out of intrest the gap between the springs on moderd traps if they are the same lenght were has that half inch gone?

[Nicepix 5,650]

It is good that FP are willing to look at their design. But for me the ultimate tunnel trap was made by them around three years ago. I have some here and they are around 65mm wide, made of such strong stainless steel that they will not squash down to 60mm, they just bounce back. The wires are harder than anything on my other FP traps and the other distinguishing feature is the lack of the Flatpack name on the side. I also have two other versions of their Ultimate traps that are successively worse than the previous incarnation.

 

I understand that cost has to play a part and that may be why they have changed their design, but believe me, the few original Ultimate traps I have are what the y said in the description - The Ultimate. If they could offer that trap again I would buy another batch tomorrow. Even at £2 a trap more than the current trap price.

[Matt 160]

Right guys, just a brief reminder of the story so far:

 

The other day, I contacted Flat Pack, not really expecting a reply, and directed them to this thread.

 

This is the message they sent me that evening:

 

 

 

Dear Matt

Thank you for your message, we have read the link with interest. We constantly
monitor our traps, and work hard to produce good quality
traps. In the last 12 months we have put further checks in place to ensure the
width of the barrels is kept within a 2mm tolerance after
comments from customers that they were slightly wider.

Would you be interested in trialling one of our narrow barrel traps? We made a
very small batch about 12 months ago, it would be good to get
your feedback, the measurement across the slots is 54mm. If you'd like to send
me your address, I'll get the last one in the post to you.

We always strive to listen to our customers and welcome suggestions. All our
traps now have stainless steel barrels and are available with
either galvanised springs and loops or stainless springs and loops. The
measurement across the slots is 60-62mm.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards


The Flat Pack

 

 

 

Anyway, as promised, the trap arrived today.

 

First impressions are that it's a very solid, well made trap. Although it's a narrower version of what they currently sell, it's made out of stainless steel throughout, and I have to say that it's very nice

 

There are no burrs to the edges, and it sets and fires OK.

 

Now, on to what I don't like about it.

 

First of all, the barrel itself is still to wide for my liking. I've measured it with a rule, and it's 67mm from outside edge to outside edge. I can't remember how wide the original JND trap is (Paul?), but this is about the same as my 'squeezed' traps.

 

Secondly, and to my mind most importantly, the holes through which the trigger wires pass is too big. Flatpack (and all modern trap makers) use a smaller gauge wire for the triggers, but put it through a much bigger hole.

 

The issue with this is that the wire has to pass from one side of the hole to the other before it actually starts disengaging itself from the trigger. That 3-5mm that it has to move is exaggerated the further down the trigger loop it goes, so 3-5 mm becomes 8-12mm play at the bottom of the trigger loop.

 

We get over this by tuning the triggers to make them more sensitive; which in itself is fine, though time consuming. One of the downsides to that tuning up is that the part of the trap that you don't want to be more sensitive, ie the top, is then very easily set off when you are covering the trap or whatever.

 

Is there anything more annoying than opening up a run, shaping the base and fitting a trap to it to have one end fire as you cover it?

 

There is a much more fundamental issue here as well. When you buy a new car, you don't usually get told to get the engine tuned before you use it. Mole traps should be no different

 

Anyway, here is a very short video which I hope will help to visualise what I'm trying in my ham fisted way to explain.

 

 

Apologies for the quality of the film guys; I had a devil of a game with the tube tonight.

 

 

 

As I wrote earlier, Flatpack have been fantastic throughout this debate, and have offered to try and make a more exact replica of an original Duffus trap, so all credit to them.

 

Whilst it's not possible at present to buy a really good Duffus type mole trap that's made in the UK, Flatpack offer the next best thing, and I can't commend them enough for having an open mind and entering into discussions about this.

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

Good work there Matt and Co...

As a trapper of some years experience myself,..I would only echo your most erudite and accurate suggestions..

 

Facts are, (and it pains me a wee bit to say this),.but,..Mole Trapping is fast becoming a minor Field Sport !

To say that we have trappers coming out of the fecking woodwork,..would not be an exaggeration....

SO,..please continue with your most excellant project and lets try and convince the FlatPack company to make, for once and bloody all time,.a good quality , ready tweaked,.usable UK Duffus Trap....

 

It is in their interests to do this ...

 

No more Big Cheese,..no more,..Eastern Promises,...we will be able to just pick up the phone,.place an order and KNOW that there will no nasty surprises

 

All the best, Phil.

[Nicepix 5,650]

All credit to the company for listening to its customers.

 

The MkII Duffus I have, endorsed J Duffus & Son, but not the patent, is 60mm across the base of the body and the wires are 55mm across at the widest point.

 

I have managed to squeeze some of the latest FP Ultimates to around 65mm across the body rather than the 74mm they come as. 74mm is far too wide and entails extra work to open up the tunnel above the 'groove' the mole runs through if you know what I mean? The original FP Ultimate is 65mm across the body and IMO is the perfect size. The narrower you make the trap the harder it is to get the spring to work properly. This may be why they have gone wider.

 

The other thing is that if you want a trap that works straight out of the box with no work you will have to pay for extra machining at the factory. Firstly the angle of the trigger loops will need to be altered so they are nearer the trapping loops than they come at present. Secondly the cutting process of the wire causes a random amount of swarf.........

 

 

This swarf needs to be ground away so as the trigger does not hang at the last point of contact........

 

 

That sort of work on hard, tempered stainless steel would cost a lot of money. Personally I would prefer to tune the traps myself and save that cost.

 

IMO the analogy of a mole trap being like a car isn't a fair representation. When you get a computer or smart phone you have to customise it with the programs or apps you want. It doesn't come fully loaded.

[Mr Wasp 187]

The original is 60mm from outside edge to outside edge.

 

I know where flat pack are measuring from now. Itsnot where we are measuring from.

 

Ive taken some close up shots, will try and post them in a bit.

[Matt 160]

Thanks Paul, will look forward to the pics.

 

Clive, thanks for that informative post I have to say that the one really good thing I've noticed about this sample they've sent me is that the burr on the end of the trigger hook isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Whether that's something to do with the new material I can't say.

[budharley 945]

This is one of the best threads I've read on here in a long time good work all round

[Nicepix 5,650]

Thanks Paul, will look forward to the pics.

 

Clive, thanks for that informative post I have to say that the one really good thing I've noticed about this sample they've sent me is that the burr on the end of the trigger hook isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Whether that's something to do with the new material I can't say.

 

It might be because someone had a word with them about it last year

[Matt 160]

 

Thanks Paul, will look forward to the pics.

 

Clive, thanks for that informative post I have to say that the one really good thing I've noticed about this sample they've sent me is that the burr on the end of the trigger hook isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. Whether that's something to do with the new material I can't say.

 

It might be because someone had a word with them about it last year

 

 

Does the one you are talking about have SS trigger loops? This little beauty is SS throughout

 

But you are right; the retaining bar 'snags' on any burr left on the end of that hook whilst I understand what you are saying about not wanting to pay them to sort it, something in my bones tells me that they will want to sort it out themselves. Chris comes across as an engineer at heart, and most importantly, one with enough pride to want to be able to make a really good quality product

 

 

 

Edited to add, if anyone is willing to cross post this to other places (APMC, Facebook etc) then please do The more input the better

Edited February 26, 2015 by Matt
As above