223 Poor Grouping

[chocky14u 4]

Buy a Wheeler FAT torque screwdriver...take the guesswork away over screw tension on mounts and action fixings.

[celticrusader 78]

The scope may not be able to cope with the shock or could just be a friday afternoon rushed one...could've been knocked badly before you owned it. Since you bought second hand I think confirming the model of it would help eliminating those theories if its a good brand.

As you've not put a lot of rounds through it as you've said at the start of the topic it could be needing a thorough cleaning.

Apologies if I have stated something untrue to your account.... Just trying to provide you with reasons to this problem mate.

[zx10mike 137]

cleaning have you scrubbed that barrel out with some high quality cleaner to remove copper fouling/carbon build up?is the throte in good nick?round count?what powder are you using and what is your home load seat depth etc.

hope you sort it,once you get a 223 running sweet you will not pick up that hmr again.

Edited July 23, 2014 by zx10mike

[some bloke 60]

cleaning have you scrubbed that barrel out with some high quality cleaner to remove copper fouling/carbon build up?is the throte in good nick?round count?what powder are you using and what is your home load seat depth etc.

hope you sort it,once you get a 223 running sweet you will not pick up that hmr again.

Barrel cleaning? wots that?

[dadioles 68]

Looking at your targets I can see why you are not happy with the groups but I could not help wondering why you do not appear to have adjusted the scope to bring the shots nearer to the centre of the target, even after the first bullet.

 

Have you got the elevation and windage adjustment on your scope set centrally? or is it near the end stops?

 

Personally I think most mounts are adequate as there is not a huge amount of recoil so don't be in too much of a hurry to spend more money.

 

Maybe your gun does not like that ammunition but start methodically with the basics of setting up a new gun with a new scope.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Personally I am still dubious as to the scope being at fault, looking at the groups, it looks like the scope is doing its job as the bullets are all falling in the same spot, its just a crap group (but the scope certainly needs eliminating) I want to see a group shot without the moderator, I also want to see some pictures of the crown, certainly a good soak/scrub with forest foam or similar will do it no harm, as I keep repeating, the answer is out there and he will both kick him self and be mighty chuffed when he sorts it, the thing is not to give up, the CZ 527 is a brilliant rifle, so come on OP pictures of the crown, and a group without moderator

[let'sshoot 11]

 

Here is the picture of the target yesterday afternoon, the bottom left (red circle) was the first group of 3 I shot, with homeloads. The bottom right (blue circle) was the second group of 3 I shot - homeloads again.

 

The homeloads are 55gr FMJ - I won't be shooting foxes with these, (they will be used for rabbit headshots when I fancy rabbit curry as the HMR makes a mess) but I have 55gr soft points ready to reload for foxes - but I won't be going anywhere near a fox unless it's bang on accurate.

 

The top left target (yellow circle) was a 2 bullet group out of 6 bullets - factory loads - Remington Premier Varmint 50gr V-max, 2 bullets went missing (I'm assuming into the board or the bank). The other two are the highlighted red marks on two different targets. That's what I mean by fliers.

 

It's so frustrating.

 

As for somebody who said to get the bullet shooting into the target, even afer the first bullet I should have messed with the crosshairs - no thank you, I'd rather shoot a close group (anywhere on the board) before trying to change it to hit the coloured target.

 

Thanks

 

 

[let'sshoot 11]

What is forest foam? To clean the crown you mean?

 

I cleaned the rifle with patches with hoppes, with a brass jag and a one piece rod before going out on Monday - 12 rounds ago - surely it doesn't need cleaning that often.

 

I don't know what the scope is, it just came with the rifle - there's no name on it, fairly good picture through it - not a patch on my mates s&b but his scope cost twice as much as my whole cabinet and contents cost.

 

I know people say to spend as much on glass as a rifle, but I came into the sport and want to try doing it as cheaply as possible. I will happily spend £50-£70 on mounts if that's what it takes. I will also happily spend approx £150 on a new scope (or good second hand). I refuse to spend £300-£1200 on a scope.

 

I know that as it is my setup is worthless to me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to spend this month and next months wages on it.

 

Thanks for the advice though - will get a picture of the crown on in a bit and may take it out the field in a short while, but it's supposed to be the hottest day of the year and cooling the barrel takes forever, even in the shade of the vehicle.

 

Thanks again

Edited July 23, 2014 by let'sshoot

[let'sshoot 11]

 

Here is the crown.

 

Are gun shops able to take it in and check it out? Getting to the point where I just want someone to sort it, then hand it back to me. My RFD is pretty good, but I don't think he has any of the facilities - he works the gun shop from home, I'm guessing if I took it to him he'd have to send it away.

 

How much does a service like that cost? If it's even a service which is offered.

 

Thanks

Edited July 23, 2014 by let'sshoot

[charlie caller 3,654]

Forest foam is just another barrel cleaner mate, it is a foam that you spray down the barrel, no I agree, it does not need cleaning that often, leave it now dont clean it until its sorted, you see all your rounds are falling in much the same spot, so I am beginning to think your scope may be ok, but we will come to that later when you have shot a group without the moderator, your point of impact may change, but at this stage it is the group we need to observe, ok step by step then, lets take a look at that crown, then see a group with no mod, and we will move on if they are not at fault

[celticrusader 78]

Hang on a minute!...you lost me when you said you would rather use the .223 for head shooting because the hmr is messy? :0

[charlie caller 3,654]

Ok well your crown looks good, so thats a start, always a bit difficult to tell looking at a picture, but it looks good to me, right next, a group without the moderator, so we can eliminate that, if you can get another brand of ammo to try that would be good, but if you cant, no worries, once we have eliminated the moderator(as I suspect we will) we will have no choice but to suspect the scope/mounts, so that will be the next move, by the way when you look up the barrel with a light, does the rifling look crisp, and the throat(chamber end of rifling) look crisp? Yes mate a good rifle smith would be my choice if I was going to send it away Brock and Norris in Shropshire for instance, but lets try and get it sorted for free, before you start spending on professional services.

Edited July 23, 2014 by charlie caller

[let'sshoot 11]

FMJ for headshot vs V-max = no brainer.

 

Anyhow that is not what the thread is about

 

I cannot look up the barrel with a light, too bright, but when I point the end towards a light or into the air then the rifling looks crisp, will try the opposite way later (looking from end towards the throat)

 

Thanks Charlie Caller, you are great at giving advice.

Edited July 23, 2014 by let'sshoot

[celticrusader 78]

True the threads not about that but head shooting rabbits with the hmr is much more efficient as my mate accompanies me with his .223 Steyr Aug and I can tell you its not as pin accurate and its a hell of a lot messier than the hmr...yes he runs 55grain fmj.

[maktayla 50]

Let'sshoot

Keep at it mate. I know it will try the patience of the best of us but, Im no expert, but im starting to think its not your rifle. Are you in a position to try your scopes off your HMR? It will be another thing ticked off your list because you know they are fine.

P.s As charlie said, leave the moderator off for now