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22 Wmr?


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#16 CaptainBanana

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:04 pm

Its No problem CaptainBanana

You have definately not been tarred with any brush. You have done what lots of us have done. Asked a question.

After all, that's what we are here for. To share any experience we have on our sport. 

Your FAO will be more than happy to answer your question and, if you're unable to get in touch with him, contact your firearms dept. 

Tomorrow will be a happy day for you, once your question is answered. Then its all down to the fun and enjoyment. Choosing, buying and getting out in the field with your rifle :D

Can I ask if you have a particular rifle and set up in mind?

 

Thanks bud, feeling a little out of my depth at the minute, truth be told. But I guess everybody has to start somewhere..

I'm a big fan of cz's, and there's a chap that my father in law knows, selling a 452-2E ZMK that I wouldn't mind taking a look at when me and the mrs go down to visit them this weekend. Then there's a Nikko Stirling Gameking 6-24x50 that's been shoved down the side of my sofa for the past few months waiting for my FAC to arrive, bit overkill maybe.. But I like to see what I'm shooting at :D

 

 

 

Hi Captainbanana
 
I have to strongly agree with Charlie. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It would probably take you longer to post your topic and read all the replies than it would to pick up the phone and contact your FEO or firearms dept. When you sat down with your firearms Officer, what did you say to him? did you ask for a .22lr or .22wmr??
When I first had my certificate it stated .22rifle, not RF WMR or LR. However I discussed having a .22LR with my FEO. I have seen topics on here where people have thought this gives them permission to buy a centrefire, say a .222. As we all know this is not the case even though it is a .22 calibre round..

Nearly forgot to mention... Congrats on getting your certificate.

 
Thank you sir.
 
I couldn't agree more, and wouldn't dream of buying a firearm of any type, without being 101% sure that I'm legally allowed to own it.
I just hope this hasn't tarred me with the brush of 'another idiot with no interest in doing things properly and legally'. I was simply seeking the opinions of people more knowledgeable and experienced than myself.
 
The FAO and I discussed the possibility of both during our conversation. I stated that I was more likely to go LR, based on all the facts that have been reiterated here today, WMR came up more as a previous experience topic, rather than anything else.
 
I don't seem to be able to reach anyone at his number thisevening, so it'll be tomorrow lunch break for a definitive answer I think.
 
Cheers
 
Mick

 

You can't buy what a RFD will not sell you, so if he sells you a WMR that means he is confident.  A WMR is a .22RF, no region can argue it isn't, if your FAC gives you the option to buy a .22RF you can buy one.  If they meant a .22lr they should have written .22lr, they wrote .22RF (actually they commonly do).  As a matter of interest does the ammo allocation also list as RF or LR?

 

Your region cannot take any gun, or your FAC off you because of, what they may have meant, they wrote .22RF that covers WMR, end of story!

 

Someone please explain to me why a .22WMR is NOT a .22RF, and why a .22RF listing only entitles you to buy a .22lr!

 

 

These were my initial thoughts too Deker, just wasn't sure if I was maybe assuming too much.

The ammo allocation is for 500 rounds RF.

Anyway, all shall be revealed when I speak to my FAO tomorrow

 

Cheers



#17 shropshire dan

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:10 pm

Mine says .22LR

#18 Deker

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:13 pm

 

You can't buy what a RFD will not sell you, so if he sells you a WMR that means he is confident.  A WMR is a .22RF, no region can argue it isn't, if your FAC gives you the option to buy a .22RF you can buy one.  If they meant a .22lr they should have written .22lr, they wrote .22RF (actually they commonly do).  As a matter of interest does the ammo allocation also list as RF or LR?
 
Your region cannot take any gun, or your FAC off you because of, what they may have meant, they wrote .22RF that covers WMR, end of story!
 
Someone please explain to me why a .22WMR is NOT a .22RF, and why a .22RF listing only entitles you to buy a .22lr!

 
These were my initial thoughts too Deker, just wasn't sure if I was maybe assuming too much.
The ammo allocation is for 500 rounds RF.
Anyway, all shall be revealed when I speak to my FAO tomorrow
 
Cheers

 


The real tragedy here is that almost certainly your region are assuming too much, not you.

 

In these situations they will actually tend to mean .22lr, frankly it is ridiculous and they deserve a good kicking if that is the case.  How difficult is it to write .22lr as opposed to .22RF if that is what they meant!


Edited by Deker, 01 May 2014 - 10:14 pm.


#19 Alsone

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:33 pm

Although I agree with Deker, technically it appears they may have granted you any .22 rimfire through loose / incorrect wording, if it wasn't intended, you risk getting the FEO off side if you act on it.

 

I'd also take advice from a shooting organisation if following that route just to be 100% sure you're legal.

 

Personally, if you intend to approach the FEO for clarification, I'd email your question so you have a reply in writing - not strictly necessary, but said it before, belt and braces. It never hurts to use caution. Obviously keep a print out of the reply!

 

That said, your dept. might not be responsive in writing and it could result in a delayed response which may impact on the length of time before you can buy a gun as you may have to chase them. Depends on how desperate you are to get one.


Edited by Alsone, 01 May 2014 - 10:35 pm.


#20 irishnut

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:07 pm

your license says .22rf.

.22rf= 22 rimfire.

the difference between a 22lr and 22wmr isn't exactly massive in the scale of things, we are talking bunny guns here. its not like comparing 22cf.

a 22 hornet and 22-250 are both 22cf, but are chalk and cheese in performance.

 

i believe there is a lot of crap talking scare mongering going on. you applied for a 22rf and have been given a slot for 22rf, now go fill it.



#21 Deker

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:11 pm

Although I agree with Deker, technically it appears they may have granted you any .22 rimfire through loose / incorrect wording, if it wasn't intended, you risk getting the FEO off side if you act on it. Help me out here, what do you mean .....technically ....loose/incorrect......if...   they are a Firearms Region, they do this all day every day, they have years of experience and know exactly what LR and RF mean, they issued him a FAC listing RF, would you like me to go in and explain the difference to them or do you think just maybe they know?
 
I'd also take advice from a shooting organisation if following that route just to be 100% sure you're legal.  Tell me what isn't 100% Legal about a .22WMR being a .22RF and at the same time tell me why a .22lr is a legal .22RF!  A RFD is a MUCH better judge of the legalities over the BASC, he will sell it to him (or not) his job/future and potentially liberty is on the line, he has much more to lose than any shooting organisation!
 

Personally, if you intend to approach the FEO for clarification, I'd email your question so you have a reply in writing - not strictly necessary, but said it before, belt and braces. It never hurts to use caution. Obviously keep a print out of the reply!
 
That said, your dept. might not be responsive in writing and it could result in a delayed response which may impact on the length of time before you can buy a gun as you may have to chase them. Depends on how desperate you are to get one.



#22 SportingShooter

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:28 am

When I had a slot for my second .22 it came back as ".22RF"

 

I clarified with my lot at the time who didn't seem all that confident, as if they hadn't been challenged before and eventually said any .22 rimfire.

 

However, what my lot say and what someone in the next county says can be two totally different things. Just look at the mess some of them get in over the wording of the "Estate condition" for borrowed rifles.

 

Err on the side of caution but I would be happy to purchase any .22 rimfire providing someone will sell it to you, ultimately, be it a .22 LR or WMR, they both fire .224" bullets from a cartridge ignited by fire from the rim of the case...



#23 charlie caller

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:55 am

 

 

Hi Captainbanana
 
I have to strongly agree with Charlie. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It would probably take you longer to post your topic and read all the replies than it would to pick up the phone and contact your FEO or firearms dept. When you sat down with your firearms Officer, what did you say to him? did you ask for a .22lr or .22wmr??
When I first had my certificate it stated .22rifle, not RF WMR or LR. However I discussed having a .22LR with my FEO. I have seen topics on here where people have thought this gives them permission to buy a centrefire, say a .222. As we all know this is not the case even though it is a .22 calibre round..

Nearly forgot to mention... Congrats on getting your certificate.

 
Thank you sir.
 
I couldn't agree more, and wouldn't dream of buying a firearm of any type, without being 101% sure that I'm legally allowed to own it.
I just hope this hasn't tarred me with the brush of 'another idiot with no interest in doing things properly and legally'. I was simply seeking the opinions of people more knowledgeable and experienced than myself.
 
The FAO and I discussed the possibility of both during our conversation. I stated that I was more likely to go LR, based on all the facts that have been reiterated here today, WMR came up more as a previous experience topic, rather than anything else.
 
I don't seem to be able to reach anyone at his number thisevening, so it'll be tomorrow lunch break for a definitive answer I think.
 
Cheers
 
Mick

 

You can't buy what a RFD will not sell you, so if he sells you a WMR that means he is confident.  A WMR is a .22RF, no region can argue it isn't, if your FAC gives you the option to buy a .22RF you can buy one.  If they meant a .22lr they should have written .22lr, they wrote .22RF (actually they commonly do).  As a matter of interest does the ammo allocation also list as RF or LR?

 

Your region cannot take any gun, or your FAC off you because of, what they may have meant, they wrote .22RF that covers WMR, end of story!

 

Someone please explain to me why a .22WMR is NOT a .22RF, and why a .22RF listing only entitles you to buy a .22lr!

 

It has never been known for an rfd to make a mistake then? And they can do what they like with your rifle and cert, you may get them back if a mistake has been made on their part, but do you really want all the hassle? I would love to ring BASC and see what they say (wont get chance today) I would err on the side of caution, just too many grey areas, until you get it from the horses mouth, then go and buy whatever you like.


Edited by charlie caller, 02 May 2014 - 09:09 am.


#24 Deker

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:19 am

Hi Captainbanana
 
I have to strongly agree with Charlie. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It would probably take you longer to post your topic and read all the replies than it would to pick up the phone and contact your FEO or firearms dept. When you sat down with your firearms Officer, what did you say to him? did you ask for a .22lr or .22wmr??
When I first had my certificate it stated .22rifle, not RF WMR or LR. However I discussed having a .22LR with my FEO. I have seen topics on here where people have thought this gives them permission to buy a centrefire, say a .222. As we all know this is not the case even though it is a .22 calibre round..

Nearly forgot to mention... Congrats on getting your certificate.

 
Thank you sir.
 
I couldn't agree more, and wouldn't dream of buying a firearm of any type, without being 101% sure that I'm legally allowed to own it.
I just hope this hasn't tarred me with the brush of 'another idiot with no interest in doing things properly and legally'. I was simply seeking the opinions of people more knowledgeable and experienced than myself.
 
The FAO and I discussed the possibility of both during our conversation. I stated that I was more likely to go LR, based on all the facts that have been reiterated here today, WMR came up more as a previous experience topic, rather than anything else.
 
I don't seem to be able to reach anyone at his number thisevening, so it'll be tomorrow lunch break for a definitive answer I think.
 
Cheers
 
Mick

You can't buy what a RFD will not sell you, so if he sells you a WMR that means he is confident.  A WMR is a .22RF, no region can argue it isn't, if your FAC gives you the option to buy a .22RF you can buy one.  If they meant a .22lr they should have written .22lr, they wrote .22RF (actually they commonly do).  As a matter of interest does the ammo allocation also list as RF or LR?
 
Your region cannot take any gun, or your FAC off you because of, what they may have meant, they wrote .22RF that covers WMR, end of story!
 
Someone please explain to me why a .22WMR is NOT a .22RF, and why a .22RF listing only entitles you to buy a .22lr!

It has never been known for an rfd to make a mistake then? And they can do what they like with your rifle and cert, you may get them back if a mistake has been made on their part, but do you really want all the hassle? I would love to ring BASC and see what they say (wont get chance today) I would err on the side of caution, just too many grey areas, until you get it from the horses mouth, then go and buy whatever you like.


I'm not following you, anyone can make a mistake, which part of a .22WMR is not a .22RF and which part of a .22lr is a .22rf?

#25 charlie caller

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:34 am

Ok let me put it another way, lets say the op has ground passed for a .22 rimfire (hypothetically of course) are you saying that his ground is also passed for .22 rimfire magnum? or potentially the new .22 wsm when it arrives? it is certainly the case that ground passed for .22 is not automatically passed for .17 rimfire, so would he not be in contravention if he bought a magnum and used it on ground passed only for the .22 lr? I totally see where you are coming from Deker really I do, and I accept 100% that the mistake would be on the part of the police, however I am trying to stop the op and anyone else for that matter causing themselves a load of grief, irrespective of who has made the mistake, this is a grey area, and could open a can of worms in future.



#26 shropshire dan

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:09 pm

My feo says land past for .22lr is also passed for hmr. I originally put a small holding down for .22lr only and then I found the need for the .17hmr I rang him and he said its been passed for .22lr so that means I can use any rimfire rifle their. I was quite surprised to be honest but i aint arguing with him as it worked to my favour

#27 charlie caller

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 01:22 pm

I am glad you said that Dan, because this is a complete contradiction of what my pal was told when he got bsome land passed for rimfire, at the time he had a .22lr and a .17hmr the feo passed the land for .22, my pal asked if he could use his hmr they said no at first, then after a bit of a discussion, he (the feo) said he would re classify the land, and ALSO pass it for hmr, he is a well known member on here so will back my story up as true if need be, this shows again how different forces apply the rules as they see fit, so what MAY be accepted in one area MAY not be accepted in another, tread carefully gentelmen.



#28 CaptainBanana

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:24 pm

So, after speaking to two different FAO's today, I'm not really a great deal further forward.

The first chap I spoke to didn't seem to even speak the same language as me. Ummed an ahhed a lot, didn't seem to know what .22wmr was and just kept telling me that i was permitted to own a .22 rimfire rifle, I left it with him while he conferred, and then he came back to me saying I couldn't own a HMR..... So I left it there with that one.

The second seemed confident and knowledgeable, but still couldn't provide me with a definitive answer. The closest we managed to get was to establish that if I went out and bought a WMR, there could be no legal repercussions, as my ticket clearly states that I can own a .22 rimfire rifle, which is the category that the .22wmr falls under. However, he advised that because they get very few question about the wmr, compared with the lr, that I shouldn't take this as gospel, and to err on the side of caution he recommended that I stick with the lr for the time being.

 

As I'm new to the whole thing, and would like to keep the licensing department on side, I think I will follow said advice and invest in the lr for now.

After all, there are really no practical reasons for me wanting a wmr over an lr, just a matter of personal preference, and Im sure I'll enjoy the lr just as much.

 

So there you have it, potentially a huge can of worms, or so it would seem. I intend to get some further opinions from both the RFD when I pay him a visit and from BASC, when I get a chance to contact them. Maybe a cut and dry answer doesn't exist and it'll just remain one of those grey areas. 



#29 SportingShooter

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:31 pm

The cut and dry solution would be for them to put the right calibre on the certificate in the first place :yes:

 

But where Firearms licensing is concerned, the Law's an Ass.



#30 charlie caller

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:58 pm

The cut and dry solution would be for them to put the right calibre on the certificate in the first place :yes:

 

But where Firearms licensing is concerned, the Law's an Ass.

Aint that the truth, what a ridiculous state of affairs, why the hell dont they just put .22lr down, it cant be that difficult.


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