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#31 Huan72

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:01 pm

In an ideal world, I would love to see all the species that have declined at the hands of man back in the country side, the problem is that we don't live in an ideal world and eco systems move on, the problem is that we deal with eco systems looking at them from our point of view and even with the best intentions, that is in the very short term. I think the conversation movement is very well intentioned with a desire to undo the damage done but systems will find their balance after species decline and when they do a reintroduction in a way that we think is best can have many unforeseen effects. Sometimes I think its more useful to acknowledge our previous mistakes and there are many and then make every effort to not make the same mistakes again. No one wants a species to become extinct because of mans greed or ignorance so spend time on preventing this rather than trying to turn the clock back. Romantically I like nothing more than the idea of bears and lynx roaming the local woods but realistically, it just cant happen. Work with what you have and work with nature from the bottom up, is the correct land available, are prey species available and sustainable and then finally, will the balance be thrown off. Its pointless re-introducing a species if its gonna push others into decline, its robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just a few thoughts :thumbs:


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#32 MIK

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:40 pm

Haven't they brought back Cranes to the UK??....love to see them over here,we've plenty of habitat for them too.

They tried to but they were killed by red kites, pine martins. gos hawks, buzzards,otters ,polecats,sea eagles and one nest was destroyed when a tree fell on it by a beaver  



#33 CBdogsA1

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:44 pm

 

Haven't they brought back Cranes to the UK??....love to see them over here,we've plenty of habitat for them too.

They tried to but they were killed by red kites, pine martins. gos hawks, buzzards,otters ,polecats,sea eagles and one nest was destroyed when a tree fell on it by a beaver  

 

 

Now your just being silly, everybody knows a buzzard will only take carrion !!


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#34 bobcullen79

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:31 pm

 

The uk has lost 3 types of lemming and at least 2 types of vole why not spend some time trying to reintroduce a prey animal to the environment which would benefit the predators we have rather than spend more time and money chasing the infamy of reintroducing yet another apex predator all I see here is as ever yet another vanity led study.

I guess there is no kudos in reintroducing a vole?

 

I don’t suppose you know the names of the species of the voles and lemmings that have died out?

I’m interested in that type of thing.

 

They`re also doing water voles near me.



#35 killbilly

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:27 am

:hmm: 

 

Haven't they brought back Cranes to the UK??....love to see them over here,we've plenty of habitat for them too.

They tried to but they were killed by red kites, pine martins. gos hawks, buzzards,otters ,polecats,sea eagles and one nest was destroyed when a tree fell on it by a beaver  

 

I'm not sure are you joking or just misinformed :hmm:

 

http://britishbirds....ing-in-Scotland

 

Seem to be doing well on that evidence.


Edited by killbilly, 19 March 2014 - 12:39 am.


#36 budharley

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:01 am

:hmm: 

 


Haven't they brought back Cranes to the UK??....love to see them over here,we've plenty of habitat for them too.

They tried to but they were killed by red kites, pine martins. gos hawks, buzzards,otters ,polecats,sea eagles and one nest was destroyed when a tree fell on it by a beaver  
 
I'm not sure are you joking or just misinformed :hmm:
 
http://britishbirds....ing-in-Scotland
 
Seem to be doing well on that evidence.

I'm sure it was a joke mate at the fact of all the predators they have released

#37 MIK

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:06 am

 

:hmm: 

 

Haven't they brought back Cranes to the UK??....love to see them over here,we've plenty of habitat for them too.

They tried to but they were killed by red kites, pine martins. gos hawks, buzzards,otters ,polecats,sea eagles and one nest was destroyed when a tree fell on it by a beaver  

 

I'm not sure are you joking or just misinformed :hmm:

 

http://britishbirds....ing-in-Scotland

 

Seem to be doing well on that evidence.

 

Its true I saw it with my own eyes



#38 Alimac2

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:06 am

:hmm:  

Haven't they brought back Cranes to the UK??....love to see them over here,we've plenty of habitat for them too.

They tried to but they were killed by red kites, pine martins. gos hawks, buzzards,otters ,polecats,sea eagles and one nest was destroyed when a tree fell on it by a beaver
I'm not sure are you joking or just misinformed :hmm: http://britishbirds....ing-in-Scotland Seem to be doing well on that evidence.
Lol

#39 off the tether

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:06 am

Martins, mink, weasels, stoats, foxes, every fecking thing that prays on chickens, should be put in a glass case and made extinct, so all the fecking do gooders and animal rights nobs can look at them, and maybe some day we can do the same with the pricks that's destroyed this country over a animal to go with them, nobs,,, kidy fiddlers,,, wife beaters,,, and drug taking fecking hippies,,, is what these animal rights scum are they should all be sent to afganistan  the fecking lot of them  a,t,b   O, T, T   



#40 3175darren

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:03 pm

In an ideal world, I would love to see all the species that have declined at the hands of man back in the country side, the problem is that we don't live in an ideal world and eco systems move on, the problem is that we deal with eco systems looking at them from our point of view and even with the best intentions, that is in the very short term. I think the conversation movement is very well intentioned with a desire to undo the damage done but systems will find their balance after species decline and when they do a reintroduction in a way that we think is best can have many unforeseen effects. Sometimes I think its more useful to acknowledge our previous mistakes and there are many and then make every effort to not make the same mistakes again. No one wants a species to become extinct because of mans greed or ignorance so spend time on preventing this rather than trying to turn the clock back. Romantically I like nothing more than the idea of bears and lynx roaming the local woods but realistically, it just cant happen. Work with what you have and work with nature from the bottom up, is the correct land available, are prey species available and sustainable and then finally, will the balance be thrown off. Its pointless re-introducing a species if its gonna push others into decline, its robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just a few thoughts :thumbs:

The problem is we don,t have the country side any more its vanished under concrete,the simple thing is,nothing we can do anymore can be done without causing conflict to something else,what people forget is the country side was made the way it is to provide food for a growing nation,if we had not still needed to harvest wild meat,half the woodlands and heath lands would have vanished long ago, before the modern movement to replace it all,its the country peoples who have maintained it long before the townie got involved,this island cannot sustain mass predator releases,and a lot of the reasons these animals were controlled so strongly, is the country people knew the damage they could do left unchecked,it is after all there lively hood ruined by the fox/badger/otter/buzzard and many others,not the townie's who sit in there ivory tower's, passing irrational,and emotionally fueled judgement,on the ways of others,and the people who are supposed to balance this, and make policies and law's to benefit all tax payers,cannot hold there morals and look at anything impartially, as they are bullied by press, and townie opinion,whether we like it or not this island cannot support its own swelling population,let alone some activists hobby,                      


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#41 Mr Muddy

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:16 pm

In an ideal world, I would love to see all the species that have declined at the hands of man back in the country side, the problem is that we don't live in an ideal world and eco systems move on, the problem is that we deal with eco systems looking at them from our point of view and even with the best intentions, that is in the very short term. I think the conversation movement is very well intentioned with a desire to undo the damage done but systems will find their balance after species decline and when they do a reintroduction in a way that we think is best can have many unforeseen effects. Sometimes I think its more useful to acknowledge our previous mistakes and there are many and then make every effort to not make the same mistakes again. No one wants a species to become extinct because of mans greed or ignorance so spend time on preventing this rather than trying to turn the clock back. Romantically I like nothing more than the idea of bears and lynx roaming the local woods but realistically, it just cant happen. Work with what you have and work with nature from the bottom up, is the correct land available, are prey species available and sustainable and then finally, will the balance be thrown off. Its pointless re-introducing a species if its gonna push others into decline, its robbing Peter to pay Paul. Just a few thoughts :thumbs:

 

I’d agree with pretty much all of that.

 

Another thing people don’t consider:

The main prey / pest species (at least near me) are brown rats, grey squirrels and of course rabbits. All introduced species.

In fact; the last time we had pine martins roaming here on the South Dows I doubt any of these species were even in England.

 

If you really, really want to look at introducing a predator, maybe you should be looking at civets, or jackals, or something that has evolved to hunt rabbits and rats.

Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? And it is ridiculous, but it still makes more sense than reintroducing an animal that has evolved to prey on our, already threatened, indigenous wildlife.



#42 Tiercel

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:28 pm

 

The uk has lost 3 types of lemming and at least 2 types of vole why not spend some time trying to reintroduce a prey animal to the environment which would benefit the predators we have rather than spend more time and money chasing the infamy of reintroducing yet another apex predator all I see here is as ever yet another vanity led study.

I guess there is no kudos in reintroducing a vole?

 

I don’t suppose you know the names of the species of the voles and lemmings that have died out?

I’m interested in that type of thing.

 

http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

 

TC




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