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Help For Pine Marten Survey!


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#1 jodieh

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 09:52 pm

Hi all, I'm currently doing my dissertation on pine marten reintroduction into Cumbria. I'm using a survey to determine the opinions of people from different backgrounds and interests. Being a conservation student I obviously have a lot of other conservation opinions at the moment, but I'd like to have a wide range of different outlooks and beliefs, so I would be super thankful to any of you that could fill out my survey! I've also made a small fact sheet about the pine marten for those who aren't familiar. Thanks again!

Survey: https://docs.google....rYcrM8/viewform
Fact Sheet: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing
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#2 CBdogsA1

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:04 am

It's a no from me.

 

Red Squirrels are finding it harder and harder to survive between squirrel pox from the already introduced grey squirrel and the ever increasing numbers of goshawks, etc. The lakes are one of their stronger places so on that basis and the other wild life the lakes provide for tourists I say no.

 

This is only my opinion and I am not looking for an argument from anyone, why, because I can't be arsed and life is to short.


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#3 Born Hunter

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 08:46 am

It's a no from me.

 

Red Squirrels are finding it harder and harder to survive between squirrel pox from the already introduced grey squirrel and the ever increasing numbers of goshawks, etc. The lakes are one of their stronger places so on that basis and the other wild life the lakes provide for tourists I say no.

 

This is only my opinion and I am not looking for an argument from anyone, why, because I can't be arsed and life is to short.

 

I read/heard somewhere that the Pine Martin was actually believed to be beneficial to the red squirrel conservation effort as they found greys easier to prey on than reds. I think they were a little more fleet through the canopy than the greys.

 

Might be bollocks, just recalled it....


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#4 3175darren

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:27 am

The only problem you have got is there's not enough stable food sources,the rabbit population is up and down like a brides nighty,otters populations are snow balling, mink every where, badgers are robbing ever ground nesting bird and young rabbit nests,along with the mink and otter, if that s not enough there's a  buzzard on every fence post,and climbing fox population,and to put another animal into conflict would in my opinion be a bad thing at this time,everyone seems to be running to release other animals,into the wild,like the re-introduction of the red kite,and they are having to feed them, that s wrong at its basic level,if they are released into the wild they should be able to sustain themselves within it,so in order to support such a release all the food sources should be there in abundance,with stable populations and not subject to huge sudden reductions like when mixy hits the rabbits,What pressure will the pine marten put on the wild populations,that s the question which no school calculator can predict, because once they are released they will have more protection from the Government, than the tax payers,                 


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#5 CBdogsA1

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:37 am

 

It's a no from me.

 

Red Squirrels are finding it harder and harder to survive between squirrel pox from the already introduced grey squirrel and the ever increasing numbers of goshawks, etc. The lakes are one of their stronger places so on that basis and the other wild life the lakes provide for tourists I say no.

 

This is only my opinion and I am not looking for an argument from anyone, why, because I can't be arsed and life is to short.

 

I read/heard somewhere that the Pine Martin was actually believed to be beneficial to the red squirrel conservation effort as they found greys easier to prey on than reds. I think they were a little more fleet through the canopy than the greys.

 

Might be bollocks, just recalled it....

 

This is so yes, but, The lakes and Dumfries & Galloway are strongholds for the red's and not so many greys around. 

 

What happens when all the easy prey has gone ?  :thumbs:



#6 Born Hunter

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:32 am

 

 

It's a no from me.

 

Red Squirrels are finding it harder and harder to survive between squirrel pox from the already introduced grey squirrel and the ever increasing numbers of goshawks, etc. The lakes are one of their stronger places so on that basis and the other wild life the lakes provide for tourists I say no.

 

This is only my opinion and I am not looking for an argument from anyone, why, because I can't be arsed and life is to short.

 

I read/heard somewhere that the Pine Martin was actually believed to be beneficial to the red squirrel conservation effort as they found greys easier to prey on than reds. I think they were a little more fleet through the canopy than the greys.

 

Might be bollocks, just recalled it....

 

This is so yes, but, The lakes and Dumfries & Galloway are strongholds for the red's and not so many greys around. 

 

What happens when all the easy prey has gone ?  :thumbs:

 

 

Yeah maybe, all I'm saying is the Red and Martin evolved in the same ecosystem to exist in a mutually beneficial and sustainable prey/predator relationship. The Grey did not and is believed to fall more easily to the Martin. By existing is areas with strong Red populations maybe they would prevent a significant Grey incursion? Also, maybe sick Reds would fall victim to them earlier than they would die naturally thus retarding the spread of disease? Protecting the Red in a natural hunter/conservationist relationship. Just a thought.....

 

I'd love to see Martins more common in the wild. Yeah they'd play hell with game, but so do stoats, mink and foxes, which are managed as part of any predator control regime.

 

Perhaps if there was a viable fur trade, the Martin would be managed and harvested sustainably as in North America and Northern Europe.....


Edited by Born Hunter, 14 March 2014 - 11:40 am.

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#7 danw

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:43 pm

The uk has lost 3 types of lemming and at least 2 types of vole why not spend some time trying to reintroduce a prey animal to the environment which would benefit the predators we have rather than spend more time and money chasing the infamy of reintroducing yet another apex predator all I see here is as ever yet another vanity led study.

I guess there is no kudos in reintroducing a vole?


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#8 3175darren

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 01:28 pm

The uk has lost 3 types of lemming and at least 2 types of vole why not spend some time trying to reintroduce a prey animal to the environment which would benefit the predators we have rather than spend more time and money chasing the infamy of reintroducing yet another apex predator all I see here is as ever yet another vanity led study.

I guess there is no kudos in reintroducing a vole?

Totally agree everyone knows you build from the bottom up,that is the only way to do it,but not these bloke's spring watch wouldn't be exciting enough, 



#9 Alimac2

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:23 pm

I keepered in what the called a "core capercaillie area" there was four figure grants for buying larsons snares fenns etc etc, all to help the cappa, which I think is great.
You bring up the point that it all could be a totally fruitless excersise as where there's cappa there's usually Martin, and for me the Martin is the biggest threat to the breeding success of the cappa..
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#10 wilbur foxhound

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:17 pm

a marten is the biggest threat to any nesting bird,cats are only worse because theres more of them,wf


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#11 foxdropper

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:38 am

Lift the protection status and i would agree with introduction .Otters have been introduced to our rivers locally with a huge knock on effect of killing large barbel .Might be  success for some but something has to give  in order for that to happen .Know nothing of the pine martin but i believe it was once commen all over britain so whats changed .


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#12 forest of dean redneck

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:44 am

Don't know,but always fancied one as a pet.

#13 OldTrapCollector

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:49 am

a marten is the biggest threat to any nesting bird

 

:yes:



#14 danw

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:51 am

The truth is these surveys are used as just another stick to beat keepers with even if the reintroduction went ahead and IF it failed or didn't adhere to these so called academics or experts expectations then keepers would bear the brunt of the criticism even though truth be known most conservation experts have little or no clue as to how nature truly works.I have to deal with these people on an almost weekly basis and if nature does something that isn't on there check list then they wont or cant believe it fact is they are arrogant enough to believe they can control or do better than nature it's self


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#15 perthshire keeper

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 05:39 pm

I keepered in what the called a "core capercaillie area" there was four figure grants for buying larsons snares fenns etc etc, all to help the cappa, which I think is great.
You bring up the point that it all could be a totally fruitless excersise as where there's cappa there's usually Martin, and for me the Martin is the biggest threat to the breeding success of the cappa..

 

 

a marten is the biggest threat to any nesting bird,cats are only worse because theres more of them,wf

i agree %100.... ive seen caper in the wild a few times and guess what the only places ive ever seen them is also the only places ive seen a wild live and unrestrained marten....................whats the diffrence between a pine marten and a stoat? = 18 inches and 2 grand  :yes:




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