Rats In A Loft

[StephenWalsh 73]

I found one of those in a wall cavity on a contract I got. There was nothing in it. It's still in the stores gathering dust.

[Alsone 789]

I found one of those in a wall cavity on a contract I got. There was nothing in it. It's still in the stores gathering dust.

 

Is that because it's no good or just because you haven't used it?

[StephenWalsh 73]

To be honest I have never had the need to try it, if I can't poison for whatever reason then snap traps do the job, and in extremes I have gluey glueness. I'm off to see a new rat job in a cafe tonight, maybe I will take it with me and see how it gets on.

 

I do like some of the more techy bits that are coming to market though. Victor to a multi catch electric mouse gizmo, battery operated, that can kill and store up to 10 mice at a time. Looks handy for a couple of non toxic sites in the food sector that I look after. Only problem is £ per unit, and if one got pinched then that is expensive. Has anyone used one of these?

 

I realise I could build a clause into the contract to the effect that any losses would be paid for by the customer, but I do try to keep things simple and this seems a bit fussy. Plus, monthly checks on a trap with half a dozen dead mice inside that has been rotting for a few weeks doesn't fill me with happy thoughts.

[Alsone 789]

Biggest pull for me with electronic traps is the lack of mess - no blood contamination. Plus I like a bit of tech.

[Grizzly 26]

You are correct Matt, the LD50 for a dog eating Difenacoum is 1000g of poison per kg of dog. An average lab (weighing around 35kg) would need to consume its own body weight in poison to be killed outright, although I suppose it's organs may give up before hand.

 

A rat only needs to consume 9g of Difenacoum in order to succumb to the poison therefore, in order for a 35kg lab to die of secondary poisoning through eating rats alone, it would need to consume almost 4000 rats in a short space of time.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Grizzly

[Mr Muddy 141]

You are correct Matt, the LD50 for a dog eating Difenacoum is 1000g of poison per kg of dog. An average lab (weighing around 35kg) would need to consume its own body weight in poison to be killed outright, although I suppose it's organs may give up before hand.

 

A rat only needs to consume 9g of Difenacoum in order to succumb to the poison therefore, in order for a 35kg lab to die of secondary poisoning through eating rats alone, it would need to consume almost 4000 rats in a short space of time.

 

Thanks for that. If I want to show that secondary poisoning in dogs is largely paranoia then there’s the figures!

 

I can see how theoretically, something that weighs the same as a rat; kestrels, little owls etc could be susceptible, (although to my knowledge they don’t eat carrion, so I’d be surprised). For dogs, cats, foxes, badgers= largely paranoia.

 

My theory:

Secondary poisoning concerns are not just people being ignorant. They are due to companies that abandon boxes that contain kgs of bait. (see photo).

Slugs & snails eat the bait, shrews and thrushes eat the snails, bigger animals eat the shrews. Eventually whenever almost any animal dies, from whatever cause, there will always be traces of rodentacide in its corpse.

 

My solution:

Always employ a local pest controller who cares about what they’re doing.

Not one that’s indifferent to just feeding the snails.

 

[Deker 3,453]

If you're having problems with wary rats, then have you thought of using an electronic trap instead such as this:

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/procter-electronic-rat-killer/76836?kpid=76836&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CI-ik4DM6bwCFQkUwwod16oA6Q

 

The point with these is if a rat has become wary of traps, then this uses a different method - electrified plates rather than a trigger plate so they won't have seen this before.

 

Also, I believe you can put the bait in the back beyond the plates so the rat has no choice but to cross the plates to get the food.

 

Rats are neophobic, they don't like change or new things!

 

Almost anything is better than this, and a lot cheaper!

[ratattack 111]

My terrier was poisoned a few years ago, he found the lid on a tub of difenicoum pasta was loose and had a feed! Luckily I found out quickly and had him to the vet.

 

If I was trapping those rats a few fenns under the insulation on the runs would sort them out. Set very lightly and a thin cover of insulation on the top. Would bait under the plate with Nutella or peanut butter so they have to dig own to it.

[Outlaw Pete 2,224]

My theory:

Slugs & snails eat the bait, shrews and thrushes eat the snails, bigger animals eat the shrews.

 

 

Not trying to nit pick, or be clever, mate. But; Having all my life found both shrews and moles left, laying dead, and totally untouched by predators or scavengers;

 

I'd pretty much accepted that f**k all eats them.

 

Mate of mine ate a mole once (He's eaten most things, just to see) Reckons fox is pretty rank. But Mole?!? He just can't express how disgusting that is.

 

I figure other creatures feel the same way about those, and shrews. Similar diets, interestingly.

[Tiercel 6,986]

Pete, my cat eats shrews regularly, alright, usually just half of one and whats left is left on the front door mat. But what is left is usually just the head and chest cavity.

 

Whats your take on neophobia in rats? Pesonally I don't think it is as big a deal as it is made out to be. Be intrested in your thoughts though.

 

TC

[Deker 3,453]

Pete, my cat eats shrews regularly, alright, usually just half of one and whats left is left on the front door mat. But what is left is usually just the head and chest cavity.

 

Whats your take on neophobia in rats? Pesonally I don't think it is as big a deal as it is made out to be. Be intrested in your thoughts though.

 

TC

In normal situations where there is an ample food supply it is an issue, where they are hungry and food is scarce, they may take day 1.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

I've baited several railway embankments in the north of England... Ample food from the takeways and bins nearby the problem I had wasn't neophobia, it was being able to keep the burrows baited long enough to make a dent in the population! The bait was going almost immediately.

 

IMHO, I think neophobia is something we have to consider when baiting, but I don't think it's as much of an issue as it used to be.

 

Evolution?

[Matt 160]

Personally, I think that rats are more cautious than neophobic.

 

As Pete pointed out earlier in the thread, if they were totally neophobic they'd always stay in the same place for fear of encountering anything new at all.

 

Part of the fuss about secondary poisoning is about shrews and other small rodents that are not strictly pest control targets. They are a primary food source for some raptors which are now being found with residues of second generation anti coagulants in their livers.

 

Part of the CRRU Wildlife Aware is trying to convince pest controllers that if you have mouse activity in external boxes it's highly unlikely that it's house mice taking the bait. You are effectively poisoning non-targets, which then pass the rodenticide onto predators.

 

For years, the pest control industry has sold a service of 'Perimeter Protection' which relies on keeping bait down all the time 'just in case' a rat pops up. In reality, field mice etc were the bane of many technicians lives because they nicked the bait intended for passing rats. The trouble is, without that 'Perimeter Protection' the industry is finding it much harder to justify routine contracts.

 

Anyway, whilst molluscs can be a problem there is no evidence that the secondary poisoning issue is being caused by them. It's mice, and we've all known about it for a long time.

 

Thinking about it all just makes me glad to be out of it.

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

 

Thinking about it all just makes me glad to be out of it.

 

Me too...

[StephenWalsh 73]

A rat only needs to consume 9g of Difenacoum in order to succumb to the poison therefore, in order for a 35kg lab to die of secondary poisoning through eating rats alone, it would need to consume almost 4000 rats in a short space of time.

 

I have no doubt that you are better at Maths than me ! But that calculation is true providing the rat ONLY EATS ENOUGH to die. Rats need to consume (on average) around 10% of their body weight per day to survive. So a rat weighing in at 1 kilo (just an example to make the maths easy for me) can eat 100g of food, and potentially 100g of rodenticide in a single day. Most SGARs take (on average) 3 days to kill a rat. So rat comes to a bait box with 100g of rodenticide in, and can and will eat the lot. He then moves on to next bait box...

Edited February 28, 2014 by StephenWalsh