17 Wsm

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

Well as I've said befoe the Honet is Ok but the trouble is for new certificate holders many forces only want new people to hold rimfire. .17WSM bridges the gap by giving a rimfire with centrefire performance.

 

I gather in my area they only now sanction centrefire for fox but as we know many areas sanction HMR for fox and insist on people having rimfire at 1st.

 

in your area ? i live in yorkshire ....and have fox on .17 ..........since renewing my licence it has come back with the following ......under all calibers it says

...........any lawful quarry suitable for that caliber..........seems the police have put the onus on the shooter what is suitable.......the .17 is not illegal on fox......but wether its suitable or not is your choice under the circumstances when shooting

I can assure you South Yorkshire do not permit the use of .22rf or .17HMR for fox.

 

I would also say getting a centrefire .243 on a first application without conditions (mentor clauses etc) would be quite an achievement.

[Deker 3,453]

 

 

I'm not whining, just pointing out that WSM serves as a bridge between rimfire and centrefire in those areas where the forces insist you have rimfire 1st.

 

As for me, I'm not too worried because if I did apply for an FAC it would be for fox plus pests and small game, which means I'd have to be centrefire anyway in our county by virtue of the fox rules here. I'd most likely go .223 because of that. If I had to go rimfire then yes it would be WSM.

 

Also, its worth remembering that reloading involves a lot of expensive equipment and a lot of hassle. I've not reloaded but I did start to watch some tutorials on Youtube and all the case cleaning, measuring of every single case, re-necking / trimming etc etc makes it a real slow process and a lot of hassle. Then there's the fact that you need to spend £1K plus on equipment. Not everyone wants that, in which case .17 hornet is more than twice the price of the wsm.

 

What right has ANY force got to insist you have rimfire first, and what calibre is a bridge between anything, calibres stand and fall on their own merits, and the merits of the 17WSM are yet to be established, so is the price in the UK of guns and ammo, and a WSM IS a Rimfire!

 

You can read as much as you want, life is different when you are walking around by yourself with your own gun.

 

Reloading will bring tailored, better performance, to any gun over factory, and for anyone who shoots a decent amount will save them money, even with the original capital investment in equipment. If you only let off half a dozen rounds a year it will not necessarily be cost effective, but it will bring you tailored performance. It is nowhere near as slow a process as you suggest once you know what you are doing. I don't reload because I don't have the time or inclination, but I know fully well with the amount of ammo I get through it would save me money and increase accuracy/effect, because others do reload for me!

 

 

They might not have any right Deker but from reports on here it seems some forces do it.

 

They need to be challenged then!

 

Someone (probably lots of people need to grow some balls) or talk to their shooting organisation, there is NO reason on Gods earth why any region INSIST you have rimfire first if you have legitimitate reason to own a centrefire!

 

Example, you have fox and small deer ONLY that are causing a problem, why on earth will the likes of Yorkshire (apparently they will not condition rimfire for fox, and which is illegal for Deer) insist you have a rimfire first?

 

As I have said many a time, reading too much is not necessarily a good thing!

[paulus 26]

Certificates and calibres are issued on requirement and land suitability within the current legislation, not at the whim of each individual force, you will find that most are quoting or miss quoting guidelines not laws. if you can prove the need for a 50cal at initial application they would have to assess it on its own merit the same as if it was a 22 rimfire,

[Deker 3,453]

 

 

Well as I've said befoe the Honet is Ok but the trouble is for new certificate holders many forces only want new people to hold rimfire. .17WSM bridges the gap by giving a rimfire with centrefire performance.

 

I gather in my area they only now sanction centrefire for fox but as we know many areas sanction HMR for fox and insist on people having rimfire at 1st.

in your area ? i live in yorkshire ....and have fox on .17 ..........since renewing my licence it has come back with the following ......under all calibers it says

...........any lawful quarry suitable for that caliber..........seems the police have put the onus on the shooter what is suitable.......the .17 is not illegal on fox......but wether its suitable or not is your choice under the circumstances when shooting

I can assure you South Yorkshire do not permit the use of .22rf or .17HMR for fox.

 

I would also say getting a centrefire .243 on a first application without conditions (mentor clauses etc) would be quite an achievement.

 

 

Well, something can't be right here delswal above, #21, suggests his is so conditioned for AOLQ.

 

Getting a centrefire on first application, even if conditions are imposed is not the same as some regions insist you have a rimfire first.

 

Any region can condition your FAC with whatever they want, (but ACPO are trying to get a more uniform approach across all the regions). This Rimfire and fox business is absolutely stupid, it doesn't matter that Yorks, or any region, don't want to condition fox on rimfire, I can visit with mine and shoot foxes perfectly legally all day with a rimfire!

 

They fall down when I shoot them so why don't they when people in Yorks, etc., shoot them?

 

4 shots, 4 fox out to just over 100yards, HMR and V-Max.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Deker

[Deker 3,453]

Well as I've said befoe the Honet is Ok but the trouble is for new certificate holders many forces only want new people to hold rimfire. .17WSM bridges the gap by giving a rimfire with centrefire performance.

 

I gather in my area they only now sanction centrefire for fox but as we know many areas sanction HMR for fox and insist on people having rimfire at 1st.

 

What a load of dogs doings!

I have said it before several times, you seem very keen but also very pliable, stop reading so much and stop believing everything you read!

 

ATB!

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

 

 

Well as I've said befoe the Honet is Ok but the trouble is for new certificate holders many forces only want new people to hold rimfire. .17WSM bridges the gap by giving a rimfire with centrefire performance.

 

I gather in my area they only now sanction centrefire for fox but as we know many areas sanction HMR for fox and insist on people having rimfire at 1st.

 

in your area ? i live in yorkshire ....and have fox on .17 ..........since renewing my licence it has come back with the following ......under all calibers it says

...........any lawful quarry suitable for that caliber..........seems the police have put the onus on the shooter what is suitable.......the .17 is not illegal on fox......but wether its suitable or not is your choice under the circumstances when shooting

I can assure you South Yorkshire do not permit the use of .22rf or .17HMR for fox.

I would also say getting a centrefire .243 on a first application without conditions (mentor clauses etc) would be quite an achievement.

 

 

Well, something can't be right here delswal above, #21, suggests his is so conditioned for AOLQ.

 

Getting a centrefire on first application, even if conditions are imposed is not the same as some regions insist you have a rimfire first.

 

Any region can condition your FAC with whatever they want, (but ACPO are trying to get a more uniform approach across all the regions). This Rimfire and fox business is absolutely stupid, it doesn't matter that Yorks, or any region, don't want to condition fox on rimfire, I can visit with mine and shoot foxes perfectly legally all day with a rimfire!

 

They fall down when I shoot them so why don't they when people in Yorks, etc., shoot them?

 

012a.jpg

4 shots, 4 fox out to just over 100yards, HMR and V-Max.

He doesnt say which part of Yorkshire perhaps he could clear this up? I had a renewal only four months ago and again I asked the question as its a common thread on here "HMR for fox" and he again confirmed they don't want foxes shot with .22 or HMR.

It's not such a problem for as I have .223 and 6.5x 55 conditioned for fox, I know you are a big advocate of right tool for the right job and I see you take down foxes with your HMR successfully so it certainly works, but its not my choice.

Maybe if somone wanted to push them hard enough they may concede but that's the current situation.

[Deker 3,453]

 

 

 

 

Well as I've said befoe the Honet is Ok but the trouble is for new certificate holders many forces only want new people to hold rimfire. .17WSM bridges the gap by giving a rimfire with centrefire performance.

 

I gather in my area they only now sanction centrefire for fox but as we know many areas sanction HMR for fox and insist on people having rimfire at 1st.

in your area ? i live in yorkshire ....and have fox on .17 ..........since renewing my licence it has come back with the following ......under all calibers it says

...........any lawful quarry suitable for that caliber..........seems the police have put the onus on the shooter what is suitable.......the .17 is not illegal on fox......but wether its suitable or not is your choice under the circumstances when shooting

I can assure you South Yorkshire do not permit the use of .22rf or .17HMR for fox.

I would also say getting a centrefire .243 on a first application without conditions (mentor clauses etc) would be quite an achievement.

 

 

Well, something can't be right here delswal above, #21, suggests his is so conditioned for AOLQ.

 

Getting a centrefire on first application, even if conditions are imposed is not the same as some regions insist you have a rimfire first.

 

Any region can condition your FAC with whatever they want, (but ACPO are trying to get a more uniform approach across all the regions). This Rimfire and fox business is absolutely stupid, it doesn't matter that Yorks, or any region, don't want to condition fox on rimfire, I can visit with mine and shoot foxes perfectly legally all day with a rimfire!

 

They fall down when I shoot them so why don't they when people in Yorks, etc., shoot them?

 

012a.jpg

4 shots, 4 fox out to just over 100yards, HMR and V-Max.

He doesnt say which part of Yorkshire perhaps he could clear this up? I had a renewal only four months ago and again I asked the question as its a common thread on here "HMR for fox" and he again confirmed they don't want foxes shot with .22 or HMR.

It's not such a problem for as I have .223 and 6.5x 55 conditioned for fox, I know you are a big advocate of right tool for the right job and I see you take down foxes with your HMR successfully so it certainly works, but its not my choice.

Maybe if somone wanted to push them hard enough they may concede but that's the current situation.

 

 

As you say, the tool for the job, that was the tool for the job in that situation, other times it may be a .243, or a shotgun etc!

 

Dare I say that if the different areas of Yorks operate a different policy on rimfire doesn't that make the situation even more ridiculous!?

 

The HMR is also very versatile, another job...... very early start yesterday to get the last on another site, pigeon turned up in the right place so it became additional bait, then of course the Magpies couldn't resist....

 

Slightly difficult to explain the terrain on this site, but the fox went down at 05.40, about 30 yards away and walking towards me, the pigeon/Magpies all went down about 90-110 yards in an area the fox appears from!

Edited September 1, 2013 by Deker

[charlie caller 3,654]

I think the waters are getting a little muddied here, it is not a fact that they insist on you having a rimfire as a first fac calibre, and as stated if you have the land/good reason then you will be granted a centerfire (with I would imagine conditions attached) however there is certainly a feeling that you should perhaps start with a rf and gain some experience befor going for a cf calibre, not an unreasonable train of thought in my opinion, but they certainly cannot insist you have a rf to the exclusion of all else.

Edited September 1, 2013 by charlie caller

[paulus 26]

I think the waters are getting a little muddied here, it is not a fact that they insist on you having a rimfire as a first fac calibre, and as stated if you have the land/good reason then you will be granted a centerfire (with I would imagine conditions attached) however there is certainly a feeling that you should perhaps start with a rf and gain some experience befor going for a cf calibre, not an unreasonable train of thought in my opinion, but they certainly cannot insist you have a rf to the exclusion of all else.

everybody applying will have varying degrees of experience from nothing to 22 years plus in the forces, the problems arise when FLO`s enforce guidelines carte blanche as if they were laws

[charlie caller 3,654]

Agreed, or just as easily ignore those guidelines of course.

[Alsone 789]

 

 

 

 

Well as I've said befoe the Honet is Ok but the trouble is for new certificate holders many forces only want new people to hold rimfire. .17WSM bridges the gap by giving a rimfire with centrefire performance.

 

I gather in my area they only now sanction centrefire for fox but as we know many areas sanction HMR for fox and insist on people having rimfire at 1st.

in your area ? i live in yorkshire ....and have fox on .17 ..........since renewing my licence it has come back with the following ......under all calibers it says

...........any lawful quarry suitable for that caliber..........seems the police have put the onus on the shooter what is suitable.......the .17 is not illegal on fox......but wether its suitable or not is your choice under the circumstances when shooting

I can assure you South Yorkshire do not permit the use of .22rf or .17HMR for fox.

I would also say getting a centrefire .243 on a first application without conditions (mentor clauses etc) would be quite an achievement.

 

 

Well, something can't be right here delswal above, #21, suggests his is so conditioned for AOLQ.

 

Getting a centrefire on first application, even if conditions are imposed is not the same as some regions insist you have a rimfire first.

 

Any region can condition your FAC with whatever they want, (but ACPO are trying to get a more uniform approach across all the regions). This Rimfire and fox business is absolutely stupid, it doesn't matter that Yorks, or any region, don't want to condition fox on rimfire, I can visit with mine and shoot foxes perfectly legally all day with a rimfire!

 

They fall down when I shoot them so why don't they when people in Yorks, etc., shoot them?

 

012a.jpg

4 shots, 4 fox out to just over 100yards, HMR and V-Max.

He doesnt say which part of Yorkshire perhaps he could clear this up? I had a renewal only four months ago and again I asked the question as its a common thread on here "HMR for fox" and he again confirmed they don't want foxes shot with .22 or HMR.

It's not such a problem for as I have .223 and 6.5x 55 conditioned for fox, I know you are a big advocate of right tool for the right job and I see you take down foxes with your HMR successfully so it certainly works, but its not my choice.

Maybe if somone wanted to push them hard enough they may concede but that's the current situation.

 

 

S. York apparently don't sanction rimfire for foxes.

 

They do allow centrefire to 1st time holders though. I know 2 people who have centrefire on open tickets for Deer in Scotland plus rifle range club despite never having picked up a gun before in their lives (calibres .223 and .22-250) + .22 rimfire.

 

This seems to be an indication that need is catered for in S. Yorks.

[Alsone 789]

My reloading kit cost me about 140 quid and I can load some very accurate ammo indeed, it really is not the black art some make out it is, and it is well worth it.

 

Well that's good value.

 

I can only go off price wise what the friend with the .22-250 said as I don't have an FAC. Obviously he was either wrong or looking at top end equipment.

 

Certainly seemed to be plenty of euqipment needed when I watched this:

 

 

Doesn't look too complicated but the thoughts of repeating that 50 or a hundred times, makes me want to buy!

[Craig83 52]

Back to topic, I spoke to Winchester and they have told me that Browning have take licence to supply the .17 WMR to Europe and gave me a contact at Browning.

 

Browning also replied to the copied e-mail.

 

"Browning are committed to the progressive introduction of current and up to date technology to the European market.

 

We are in talks with various rifle manufactures who supply products to Europe and will shortly be announcing the release time line to the European market. We are hoping for the first rifles to be available before the end of 2013 and no later than Feburary 2014. Subject to the right rifles being ready.

 

Thank you very much for your support for Winchester products and we hope you enjoy this new and exciting step forward in Rimfire technology"

 

I also asked Hornady if they were going to match the .17 WMR with their own brand. No answer back from them yet.

 

Cheers

Craig

[Deker 3,453]

Back to topic, I spoke to Winchester and they have told me that Browning have take licence to supply the .17 WMR to Europe and gave me a contact at Browning.

 

Browning also replied to the copied e-mail.

 

"Browning are committed to the progressive introduction of current and up to date technology to the European market.

 

We are in talks with various rifle manufactures who supply products to Europe and will shortly be announcing the release time line to the European market. We are hoping for the first rifles to be available before the end of 2013 and no later than Feburary 2014. Subject to the right rifles being ready.

 

Thank you very much for your support for Winchester products and we hope you enjoy this new and exciting step forward in Rimfire technology"

 

I also asked Hornady if they were going to match the .17 WMR with their own brand. No answer back from them yet.

 

Cheers

Craig

 

Is this now called a 17WMR, what happened the 17WSM?

[Deker 3,453]

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=103821

 

Ok, hardly scientific, but this would lead me to think there is still availability issues in the US, that being the case you can forget any early arrival here in the UK.