Is It Legal??

[victory01 11]

I would trap them and hand them over to the RSPCA they seem to have no problem killing everything else in their custody that should solve it

[danw 1,748]

@ Danw, Nope on the neighbour point.

 

1. Torts are civil actions. Tort and criminal are entirely separate so something that can be a tort is not necessarily a crime. eg. a claim for an injury resulting from an accident. An injury resulting from a pure accident is not a usually a crime but you can be sued on it if you were to blame. Equally but rarely, it can happen the other way around (I'm trying to think of an example here of the other way around but the only one I can only think of is the example Paulas has given above where it would appear from that quote that killing a cat may not in some circumstances constitute a tort but may nevertheless constitute a crime).

 

2. For tort the definition of "neighbour" is a legal definition given in Donahue vs Stevenson which was pretty much the founding case of modern tort law.

 

Your neighbour is: "persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question."

 

So in other words, your neighbour is anyone that you ought reasonably to have considered would have been affected by your action or failure to act (the latter applying to circumstances where you were required to do so).

 

Ommissions catch many people out because there is a mistaken widely held belief that if you don't do anything you can't be liable eg if you don't clear snow from a path, when in actual fact you can be under a duty to alleviate a danger and are liable if you fail to do so.

 

And there was me thinking my post was clearly a piss take I'll try and be a bit more obvious in future.

[paulus 26]

 

@ Danw, Nope on the neighbour point.

 

1. Torts are civil actions. Tort and criminal are entirely separate so something that can be a tort is not necessarily a crime. eg. a claim for an injury resulting from an accident. An injury resulting from a pure accident is not a usually a crime but you can be sued on it if you were to blame. Equally but rarely, it can happen the other way around (I'm trying to think of an example here of the other way around but the only one I can only think of is the example Paulas has given above where it would appear from that quote that killing a cat may not in some circumstances constitute a tort but may nevertheless constitute a crime).

 

2. For tort the definition of "neighbour" is a legal definition given in Donahue vs Stevenson which was pretty much the founding case of modern tort law.

 

Your neighbour is: "persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question."

 

So in other words, your neighbour is anyone that you ought reasonably to have considered would have been affected by your action or failure to act (the latter applying to circumstances where you were required to do so).

 

Ommissions catch many people out because there is a mistaken widely held belief that if you don't do anything you can't be liable eg if you don't clear snow from a path, when in actual fact you can be under a duty to alleviate a danger and are liable if you fail to do so.

 

And there was me thinking my post was clearly a piss take I'll try and be a bit more obvious in future.

 

could do better 3/10

[Alsone 789]

could do better 3/10

 

 

Sometimes it's difficult to tell on message boards so we should probably both try harder, you at making it obvious and me at spotting it.

[paulus 26]

 

could do better 3/10

 

 

Sometimes it's difficult to tell on message boards so we should probably both try harder, you at making it obvious and me at spotting it.

 

and dan for only getting 3/10

[beast 1,884]

here's a question, is there a legal definition of feral? is it possible to even define the word in law (eg how long the animal has been living in a wild state) or how proof could be obtained of status?

[kranky 507]

Absolute tosh

 

Show me these 'laws' you are quoting please Kranky.

 

Here in the UK cats remain property regardless of where they are, or if they are wearing a collar.

 

The only correct thing you've stated in that post is that you don't have to stop if you run one over; unlike dogs.

 

And before you suggest it, the Abandonment of Animals Act was repealed some time ago....

 

Please, don't come on here giving such poor advice. The fact is, you are never allowed to willfully kill a cat unless you are prepared to stand up in court and explain to a magistrate what 'reasonable' measures you took to ensure it was feral.

How about you provide the laws that you quoted prior to my post? You started to produce facts about law without any evidence, first.

 

I am prepared to stand up in front of a magistrate and tell them that I killed a cat that was on my property. It would never be heard before a magistrate and would never get to court. Provide evidence of one case where it has happened.

 

Please don't come on here giving such poor advice because your hand hovers over the delete or ban button and you believe you have the right to be sanctimonious and no one should question you.

 

 

Maybe you should report me to the RSPCA for humanely killing a cat and see how far those lunatics want to pursue it. I can tell you, from

personal experience, that it isn't anything that they want to get involved with.

[Matt 160]

 

Absolute tosh

 

Show me these 'laws' you are quoting please Kranky.

 

Here in the UK cats remain property regardless of where they are, or if they are wearing a collar.

 

The only correct thing you've stated in that post is that you don't have to stop if you run one over; unlike dogs.

 

And before you suggest it, the Abandonment of Animals Act was repealed some time ago....

 

Please, don't come on here giving such poor advice. The fact is, you are never allowed to willfully kill a cat unless you are prepared to stand up in court and explain to a magistrate what 'reasonable' measures you took to ensure it was feral.

How about you provide the laws that you quoted prior to my post? You started to produce facts about law without any evidence, first.

 

I am prepared to stand up in front of a magistrate and tell them that I killed a cat that was on my property. It would never be heard before a magistrate and would never get to court. Provide evidence of one case where it has happened.

 

Please don't come on here giving such poor advice because your hand hovers over the delete or ban button and you believe you have the right to be sanctimonious and no one should question you.

 

 

Maybe you should report me to the RSPCA for humanely killing a cat and see how far those lunatics want to pursue it. I can tell you, from

personal experience, that it isn't anything that they want to get involved with.

 

 

@ Kranky.....

 

I could quote endless acts of parliament at you, or even just refer you to Parkes and Thornley (which is the defininitive guide to rural law) but I'm not going to...

 

Why?

 

Because there is no point.

 

You'd rather believe a charity like the RSPCA when it comes to legal matters.

 

You crack on lad. And when you've stood in front of that magistrate, pop back on here and let us know how you've got on.........

[Alsone 789]

The question of Shooting Cats was asked in shooting.uk and answered by David Frost who I believe is / was a legal adviser at the BASC:

 

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/shootingadvice/452145/Am_I_allowed_to_shoot_feral_cats.html

 

Although the answer is somewhat brief, you'll see that he confirms that cats are legally the owners "property" as was pointed out above and that as such shooting a domestic non feral cat is an offence of Criminal Damage and would also leave you open to a law suit. The onus is on you to absolutely prove that the cat was feral.

 

I'd also suggest that other laws may also apply such as those relating to cruelty if the death was anything less than instantaneous as there are various UK animal protection laws that create offences out of causing suffering that could kick in.

 

In addition by the very nature of the fact that non feral cats are someone's property, as mentioned above, this also opens you up to charges of theft if trapping and removing them and the civil tort of conversion.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Alsone

[hutchey 147]

Best advice then is dead easy, Don't touch them! End of problem.

[Alsone 789]

 

Maybe you should report me to the RSPCA for humanely killing a cat and see how far those lunatics want to pursue it. I can tell you, from

personal experience, that it isn't anything that they want to get involved with.

 

 

I really shouldn't indulge you but...

 

Here's an actual proseuction for killing a domestic cat on a farm with a single humane shot:

 

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/teen-could-be-jailed-for-shooting-cat-1.77764?referrerPath=home/2.1962

 

The guy claimed it was an accident through mistaken identity. Doesn't say the final outcome but he was found guilty of Criminal Damage and the case adjorned whilst the Courts considered whether or not to sentance him to prison.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

...and if you believe the RSPCA won't be bothered to pursue you, think again.

 

This was a case of a serving Police Officer who in the execution of his duty came across an injured cat which had been run over in the street and killied it humanely with a shovel (There's no suggestion the killing was anything less than humane).

 

The RSPCA pursued him for 2 years through the Courts at a cost of £50,000.

 

Although the Courts did aquit him, this was because:

 

1. The cat was mortally injured to start with

 

2. The guy was a serving Police Officer executing his duty in difficult circumstances (see the judges reported comments).

 

Therefore a Court would not likely be lenient in the case of a member of the public who killed a cat merely because it was on their land (especially bearing in mind such a killing would be unlawful in the UK)

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1515201/Two-years-and-50000-later-ordeal-of-policeman-who-put-dying-cat-out-of-its-misery-is-finally-over.html

Edited July 17, 2013 by Alsone

[hutchey 147]

I shouldn't make light of this but.... It's a cat astrophe really.

Maybe one day there will be so bloody many of them that there will be a basc approved season for them.

Just like there's too many seagulls killing off other species, grey squirrels killing off reds and too many bloody badgers

[danw 1,748]

 

could do better 3/10

 

Sometimes it's difficult to tell on message boards so we should probably both try harder, you at making it obvious and me at spotting it.

Its cause I cant get they damned smilies to work Paulus did try to help me but I only managed a 0.5/10 for effort

 

 

P.s Hutchy cat astrophe thats only worth 1/10 lol

[hutchey 147]

Lol Dan, I tried mate but I reckon the heat got me down.

Should be near you next month. Been needing to wait til I get paid before shopping!

Made myself a second high seat last weekend. Needs finishing and netting up but should offer me some better Charlie angles.

[kranky 507]

 

 

 

Absolute tosh

 

Show me these 'laws' you are quoting please Kranky.

 

Here in the UK cats remain property regardless of where they are, or if they are wearing a collar.

 

The only correct thing you've stated in that post is that you don't have to stop if you run one over; unlike dogs.

 

And before you suggest it, the Abandonment of Animals Act was repealed some time ago....

 

Please, don't come on here giving such poor advice. The fact is, you are never allowed to willfully kill a cat unless you are prepared to stand up in court and explain to a magistrate what 'reasonable' measures you took to ensure it was feral.

How about you provide the laws that you quoted prior to my post? You started to produce facts about law without any evidence, first.

 

I am prepared to stand up in front of a magistrate and tell them that I killed a cat that was on my property. It would never be heard before a magistrate and would never get to court. Provide evidence of one case where it has happened.

 

Please don't come on here giving such poor advice because your hand hovers over the delete or ban button and you believe you have the right to be sanctimonious and no one should question you.

 

 

Maybe you should report me to the RSPCA for humanely killing a cat and see how far those lunatics want to pursue it. I can tell you, from

personal experience, that it isn't anything that they want to get involved with.

@ Kranky.....

 

I could quote endless acts of parliament at you, or even just refer you to Parkes and Thornley (which is the defininitive guide to rural law) but I'm not going to...

 

Why?

 

Because there is no point.

 

You'd rather believe a charity like the RSPCA when it comes to legal matters.

 

You crack on lad. And when you've stood in front of that magistrate, pop back on here and let us know how you've got on.........

That's my point, I've not had to stand in front of the magistrate and the RSPCA refused to get involved. You carry on laughing, you're not the font of all knowledge.

 

Are you the same Matt the rat, pest controller, that used to post on Jacks Shed?