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Is It Legal??


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#1 ferrets88

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:19 am

I work on a free range poultry farm and have been getting problems from peoples dogs/cats does anyone know where the law stands on this? Work have made complaints to the owners but its getting to the stage where enough is enough and we've been told to shoot them on sight. I just want to make sure that I am not going to be breaking the law and risk losing my firearms license.



#2 paulus

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:25 am

I work on a free range poultry farm and have been getting problems from peoples dogs/cats does anyone know where the law stands on this? Work have made complaints to the owners but its getting to the stage where enough is enough and we've been told to shoot them on sight. I just want to make sure that I am not going to be breaking the law and risk losing my firearms license.

ring your flo for advise however read here https://www.gov.uk/c...public/overview



#3 Matt

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:54 am

You can only shoot a dog worrying livestock as a last resort and if you do you must report your action within 48 hours to the police.

 

There are also issues around the conditions of your FAC.

 

Cats may not be shot unless you can show that you've taken all reasonable measures to ensure that they are feral.  Cats are the property of their owners, who cannot be held liable for damage they've caused.

 

I've had this very situation myself, and actually caught a dog and put it in the kennels until the owner agreed to pay compensation.

 

Be very, very careful before you decide to get the gun out.



#4 Alsone

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 01:28 pm

I'd advise against seizing anyone's property including dogs until they've paid you compensation as that could be seen as theft, conversion (where you treat some else's property effectively as your own) or blackmail. You risk putting yourself the wrong side of the law as you cannot legally confiscate anything or hold property to ransom in connection with an unrelated compensation claim.

 

If you're having trouble with dogs, I suggest contacting your FAO officer for advice on what you can and cannot do and what steps you need to take to warn dog owners eg signage that dogs should be kept on a lead, signs that dogs being allowed to tresspass and worry livestock may be shot. Try to get the problems on record and take advice on what signage and what actions are legal and what are not. It might also be worth keeping any dead livestock that have resulted as then you have some proof of damage occurring. Video of incidents may also be useful. Also ask the police to investigate the worrying before contemplating any action yourself if your advised you might have a legal right to take action. Everything you get on record to show you took every possible other step to avoid the situation beforehand will count in your favour if your actions are questioned.

 

I'd want to accrue as much evidence beforehand as possible as once you've shot a dog, if it turns out you have to, you want as much proof as possible to show that it was justified otherwise you may end up the wrong side of the law.

 

I'd also speak to the BASC for advice as there are insurance implications because if you shoot a dog, legally or otherwise, the owner is most likely going to sue, so you want to make sure your on absolutely solid ground legally first.


Edited by Alsone, 14 July 2013 - 01:44 pm.


#5 The one

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:52 pm

You may regret shooting folks animals surely asking the police to have a word with the owners would be a better result 



#6 CharlieT

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:02 pm

You will need a specific condition on your FAC

 

You must report the fact to the police within 48 hours

 

You have no automatic right to shoot a dog, in fact by so doing you will have committed an act of criminal damage. However, in the case of a dog shot whilst in the act of worrying livestock the person who shoots the dog would, in a court of law, have to demonstrate his lawful excuse and show that his actions were justifiable and reasonable.

 

Remember that for such a defense to be acceptable the dog may only be shot whilst it is an immediate threat and you may be called upon to prove that in court.

 

Shooting dogs really is a last resort.



#7 dadioles

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:14 pm

It is up to your employer, the owner of the business, to sort it out with the cat / dog owners.  Slow and irritating but that is life.

 

To be telling you to "shoot them on sight" is an ill thought out emotive response that, if you did, would land you in a whole lot of bother and if you tried the "I was following orders" excuse it would probably cost you your license, your employer a fine and possibly lose you your job.

 

It may not be fair but strictly speaking it is not your problem.


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#8 Malt

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 04:51 pm

You will need a specific condition on your FAC

 

You must report the fact to the police within 48 hours

 

You have no automatic right to shoot a dog, in fact by so doing you will have committed an act of criminal damage. However, in the case of a dog shot whilst in the act of worrying livestock the person who shoots the dog would, in a court of law, have to demonstrate his lawful excuse and show that his actions were justifiable and reasonable.

 

Remember that for such a defense to be acceptable the dog may only be shot whilst it is an immediate threat and you may be called upon to prove that in court.

 

Shooting dogs really is a last resort.

Not if he's shooting with a shotgun.. 



#9 CharlieT

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:29 pm

 

You will need a specific condition on your FAC

 

You must report the fact to the police within 48 hours

 

You have no automatic right to shoot a dog, in fact by so doing you will have committed an act of criminal damage. However, in the case of a dog shot whilst in the act of worrying livestock the person who shoots the dog would, in a court of law, have to demonstrate his lawful excuse and show that his actions were justifiable and reasonable.

 

Remember that for such a defense to be acceptable the dog may only be shot whilst it is an immediate threat and you may be called upon to prove that in court.

 

Shooting dogs really is a last resort.

Not if he's shooting with a shotgun.. 

 

But if you read the opening post you will see that he did say "risk losing his firearm license"



#10 Malt

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:30 pm

 

 

You will need a specific condition on your FAC

 

You must report the fact to the police within 48 hours

 

You have no automatic right to shoot a dog, in fact by so doing you will have committed an act of criminal damage. However, in the case of a dog shot whilst in the act of worrying livestock the person who shoots the dog would, in a court of law, have to demonstrate his lawful excuse and show that his actions were justifiable and reasonable.

 

Remember that for such a defense to be acceptable the dog may only be shot whilst it is an immediate threat and you may be called upon to prove that in court.

 

Shooting dogs really is a last resort.

Not if he's shooting with a shotgun.. 

 

But if you read the opening post you will see that he did say "risk losing his firearm license"

 

Fair point.. :thumbs: 



#11 DeerhoundLurcherMan

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:55 pm

Not worth getting involved if your an employee, to much at stake for you......Say you did shoot a dog, you risk losing your fac/sgc and you risk your boss's business going up in flames (literally) then your boss might blame you, there goes your job..... 



#12 Matt

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:03 pm

Just to clarify; I would not recommend that anyone does what I did :thumbs:

 

Quite recently, a neighbour in Devon caught a dog worrying sheep.  Dog was caught and put into the back of a landrover until the police arrived.  The constable asked the owner to sign the dog over to them and took it straight to the vets to be destroyed. Less than a fortnight later, the person concerned got another dog. :nono:

 

As someone has quite rightly pointed out; there is no legal right to shoot a dog.  What there is, is a legal defence that a dog was shot.

 

A subtle, but important difference :thumbs:



#13 PLEDGEY

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:07 pm

Section 9 of the Animals act 1971 provides that the owner of livestock, the landowner or anyone acting on behalf is entitled to shoot any dog if they believe it is the only reasonable way of stopping it worrying livestock. Such action must be reported to the Police within 48 hours. At the end of the day it's not the dogs fault but the piss poor owner and i would still be reluctant to shoot a dog as i like dogs more than some people i can think of.  As for cats, as long as they are feral then they come under the Mammalian pest species.

 

#14 Matt

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 07:42 pm

What's the 'mamilian pest species' please Pledgey?  I'd love to know, as it's a piece of legislation I've not heard of......

 

Cats are property, and their owners cannot be held legally liable for their actions.  If you kill one thinking that it's feral, the onus is on you to prove that you've taken reasonable measures to ensure that it is actually feral.



#15 ferrets88

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:28 pm

Thanks for all your replies lads. Work have been onto the owners and they don't seem interested the police have been called but aren't bothered even tho we caught the dogs in the act and saw them running back to the owners gardens there was insufficient evidence. I don't want to shoot the dogs I can just see it causing me problems and like some of you have said end up with work going up in flames. Cats are fair game cant stand the bloody things think the best way to sort dogs is trap them then see if that's enough evidence for the police to act.




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