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Barf Vs Complete


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#1 vin

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:54 pm

Hello all.

 

 I have a freind who trains gundogs..he thinks that redmills and Gain racer/worker complete is better for the dogs than a barf diet.

 

Anyone care to prove him wrong technically.

 

he uses a bit of RAW chicken mince or tripe and adds it to the complete kibble etc etc..I mean a little bit,like 1lb between 8 dogs meals.

 

I said he would be better of with just chicken carcass minced than any of that complete rubbish...but he,s having none of it..he says too much chicken stops the dogs producing enough red blood cells and too many white ?

 

I think chicken carcass is my staple base for the rest of the dogs diet. I add Lamb,Beef,Rabbit,woodies breasts etc etc plus plenty if raw bones and also frozen fresh veg. . . He says the complete does a better job all round.. ?

 

Anyone got the time will or energy to prove him wrong in writing etc etc..I can talk till Im blue in the face..he wont listen..

 

atb

 

Vin



#2 socks

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:59 pm

Fukc him mate people like him will never listen to any reason ........
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#3 dogs-n-natives

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:20 pm

No contest, the dried food diets will always be a poor substitute compared to the REAL THING.


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#4 redpat1

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:48 pm

I always let the evidence speak for itself. When I have plenty of game or trimmings etc my dogs (and ferrets) get it and you can see the difference within a day or two of coming off complete. Their coats and eyes are brighter, their teeth are cleaner, their behaviour improves no end and their bodily functions are spot on. As soon as I go back to a complete there is a noticeable decline all around. There is no debate, it is a fact end of story.

Sorry to be blunt but you cant argue with nature.

Its like saying kids do better on processed food than they do on a natural diet of fresh meat, fruit and veg etc. Bonkers.


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#5 Giro

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 05:24 pm

Tell him to compare two turds..

 

His dogs will do 4/5 sloppy juicey turds aday mine will do two slick firm black ones :laugh:


Edited by Giro, 21 June 2013 - 05:25 pm.

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#6 vin

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:24 am

cheers everyone



#7 Kay

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 01:53 pm

My own experiences of both dry & raw meat are as follows

 

The dogs fed on dry food alone produced slimey smelly copious amounts of waste .. which proves to me that no matter what brand you feed your dog ISNT utilising all the ingredients hence the sheer amount of crap they produce because your filling the dog with crap ingredients 

 

There coats were dry & flakey.. they moulted pretty much all year ... there breath stank like cat shit... there teeth where disgusting .... they farted all the time & basically stank the house out

 

The differences once fed on a meat diet , there waste was 80% reduced .. so I can assume there body's were deriving more from there overall diet because of  less waste .. which is firm & odour free making the bin less of a maggot factory in the warmer weather

 

There coats are lovely & even & now only have the seasonal moult which is a lot less than when they were fed on dry food.. there breath is good & they dont have wind ... all in all there easier dogs to live with & look better 

 

A few months ago i had to switch temperarily back to dry food .. and within a couple week they were pretty much back to  old smelly shit machines .... raw meat diet all the way for me  :thumbs: ... just from my findings after feeding so called premiem dry food & cheaper variations


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#8 Bigpat

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:04 pm

I feed & believe in complete diet 'Royal Canin,' small dog, I have 6 dogs all stunning, & 2 which are workers, I know exactly what nutrition is in their feed, - its consistent, Its not cheep - £36 for 8kg, stools are firm & don't stink, the dogs love the taste, white teeth, glossy coat, used it for 3 years, not all complete diets are the same, what suits one dog won't suit another. I will say some fresh will add variation & variety. The end of the day their your dogs feed em what you want & what you believe is the best, some may have to feed what they can afford. cheers



#9 BORDERSCOT

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:15 pm

Hello all.

 

 I have a freind who trains gundogs..he thinks that redmills and Gain racer/worker complete is better for the dogs than a barf diet.

 

Anyone care to prove him wrong technically.

 

he uses a bit of RAW chicken mince or tripe and adds it to the complete kibble etc etc..I mean a little bit,like 1lb between 8 dogs meals.

 

I said he would be better of with just chicken carcass minced than any of that complete rubbish...but he,s having none of it..he says too much chicken stops the dogs producing enough red blood cells and too many white ?

 

I think chicken carcass is my staple base for the rest of the dogs diet. I add Lamb,Beef,Rabbit,woodies breasts etc etc plus plenty if raw bones and also frozen fresh veg. . . He says the complete does a better job all round.. ?

 

Anyone got the time will or energy to prove him wrong in writing etc etc..I can talk till Im blue in the face..he wont listen..

 

atb

 

Vin

 

 

Fukc him mate people like him will never listen to any reason ........

 

Admire your technical approach Socks.................. :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:


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#10 sandymere

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:39 pm

Completes are certainly not the best but then a true barf diet isn’t either. Completes are an easy option and do the job but I prefer to use them as part of the diet rather than as the only diet. I feed raw meat and bones as part of the diet but not again not alone.  It depends on what the dog is doing but for lurcher types especially proper barf doesn’t have much in the way of utilisable carbs .

 

BARF stands for Biologically appropriate raw food, and I’ve always had one fundamental question; why must it has to be raw???? Would you feed your child only raw food, it’s nonsensical.

 

 

As to proof it’s a lot easier to prove BARf diets are less than adequate/healthy than completes.

This has some good links in one place

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

 

 

Perhaps rather than concentrating advocating raw against completes or cooked, it would be better to promote a sensible balanced diet, with ideas on how.

 

 

 

If you get excessive or sloppy stools its usually down to amounts etc rather than feeds as it is with overly hard dry stools with to much bone, basically sensible feeding whatever method you use. And finally on poo, if anyone doesn’t understand the concept of fibre, gut bacteria, volume etc its worth finding out

 

 

 


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#11 vin

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 04:50 pm

Completes are certainly not the best but then a true barf diet isn’t either. Completes are an easy option and do the job but I prefer to use them as part of the diet rather than as the only diet. I feed raw meat and bones as part of the diet but not again not alone.  It depends on what the dog is doing but for lurcher types especially proper barf doesn’t have much in the way of utilisable carbs .

 

BARF stands for Biologically appropriate raw food, and I’ve always had one fundamental question; why must it has to be raw???? Would you feed your child only raw food, it’s nonsensical.

 

 

As to proof it’s a lot easier to prove BARf diets are less than adequate/healthy than completes.

This has some good links in one place

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

 

 

Perhaps rather than concentrating advocating raw against completes or cooked, it would be better to promote a sensible balanced diet, with ideas on how.

 

 

 

If you get excessive or sloppy stools its usually down to amounts etc rather than feeds as it is with overly hard dry stools with to much bone, basically sensible feeding whatever method you use. And finally on poo, if anyone doesn’t understand the concept of fibre, gut bacteria, volume etc its worth finding out

 

 

 

 

 

 great post .

 

 some great points there.

 

also liked the links.

 

 I am still in belief that RAW is the only way though. . . no kibble at all. . . Just lots of variety in the meat and veg departments.

 

A friend of mine has just started switching one of his dogs over from kibble to RAW and he says in 2 weeks other people have started asking him what he,s got that dog on because its running out of its skin ( spaniel ) and looks fantastic..he says the kibble has now become the treat he keeps in his pockets for training etc etc.and the RAW is main diet.



#12 LaraCroft

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:59 pm

I think the "Raw" element has become the focus, rather than it being biologically appropriate - yes, raw meat is a constituent, but veg, bones, and other appropriate elements need to be in there too. 

 

A point I saw raised on another forum was that in the wild, when prey was caught, it was eaten - so repeated fast runs were not the "norm" but the exception, when an initial hunt had failed. In modern working dogs, the prey isn't eaten, and runs/hunts are repeated time and time again - something that necessitates carbohydrate in the diet for prolonged energy release. There is a big difference between nutritional needs of the working dogs that are required to feed themselves and fill the pot, and those that are wanted to pose in pictures for  catching a ton in one night. 

 

Interestingly, the vast majority of dogs coming into the vets for skin problems, are fed on complete diets. I know there are many causes of atopy type dermatitis, but it interesting that so many seem to be diet related. 


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#13 Rake aboot

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:13 pm

Since I moved my dogs onto IAMS  I have noticed a marked improvement in condition

 

The stools a far smaller, and firmer,  much less waste. The coat is in better condition as is muscle tone.  Some complete foods really do work well.

 

Saying that, my dogs did well on Dr Johns for years, but now that I have seen the difference I wouldn`t go back unless I was skint.



#14 LaraCroft

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:43 pm

Since I moved my dogs onto IAMS  I have noticed a marked improvement in condition

 

The stools a far smaller, and firmer,  much less waste. The coat is in better condition as is muscle tone.  Some complete foods really do work well.

 

Saying that, my dogs did well on Dr Johns for years, but now that I have seen the difference I wouldn`t go back unless I was skint.

Agree totally that some completes are really great - I had one of mine ( a while ago ) on Nutro and it was amazing - great coat and energy, low output, no nasty smells, no itching etc - then they hiked the price up and I had taken on my brothers 3 old lurchers, so I really couldn't afford it, but it was really good. If I remember right, the main ingredient was chicken, rather than grain, so I guess it was better quality than some of the grain based feeds.



#15 Rake aboot

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:48 pm

Yup

IAMS is a poultry based food with a high meat content. I was impressed that I saw such a difference, I always assumed it was expensive for moneys sake, but after using it I couldn`t reccomend it enough.






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