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Gwp's Cross Labs

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having recently aquired my first gwp after a life time of spaniels i ve had my eyes opened to the different temperments of the two breeds the gwp seems to grasp things over a shorter period which i think is due to its more layed back temperment on the flip side i find it hard to adjusts to the way he works an area ranging down wind and lifting his head to get his nostrils filled or just walking up the back of hedges having a good draw then walking on if nothing interests him were as the spaniel will have shook same hegde to its roots before passing it on were by you know nothing is at home now when the gwp does get a scent then he goes up about 5 gears and his whole attitude changes and nothing stops him hedges etc he just punches a hole in them so i suppose i just have to trust the dog and his nose as for the water i just introduced him slowly to it and he eventually took to it no prob and will enter no prob for a retrieve he will walk the shore up to his belly but he will not enter like the spaniels just for the fun of it but its early days and maybe after a hard days running he might take to it without a retrieve also the gait and build means that even tho he looks like he s cantering hes actually eating the ground up and when i first got him he put me in mind of a well boned deerhound lol anyway so far so good with him but once hes entered to game for the first time this coming season i expect the switch to really flick on plus id say alot of the steady work he s doing at the moment may go out of his head on a few ocassions but i ll just have to keep a firm hand and keep him on track

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It's like crossing a Maserati (wirehair) with a Dumptruck (lab).

 

Nuff said?

Well,Such a non statement that is ! and best left over your side of the water..But as you maybe or not be aware we do send alot of trialing dogs over to your part`s, so some things cant be that bad.

 

Stick in

 

Non statement? It's the truest thing you can say on the matter. Wirehairs are the product of some of the most intricate breeding yet done. They are fine gun dogs for the foot hunter, as well as fine in the water. On top of that, they blood track, dispatch vermin, and guard you while you sleep. What exactly could a Labrador retriever contribute to this breeding?

 

By the way, I meant no offense to anyone.

 

ATB

 

What proper trained working Lab cant do all those things like?

 

Well, if you have all day. Then Maybe.....

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having recently aquired my first gwp after a life time of spaniels i ve had my eyes opened to the different temperments of the two breeds the gwp seems to grasp things over a shorter period which i think is due to its more layed back temperment on the flip side i find it hard to adjusts to the way he works an area ranging down wind and lifting his head to get his nostrils filled or just walking up the back of hedges having a good draw then walking on if nothing interests him were as the spaniel will have shook same hegde to its roots before passing it on were by you know nothing is at home now when the gwp does get a scent then he goes up about 5 gears and his whole attitude changes and nothing stops him hedges etc he just punches a hole in them so i suppose i just have to trust the dog and his nose as for the water i just introduced him slowly to it and he eventually took to it no prob and will enter no prob for a retrieve he will walk the shore up to his belly but he will not enter like the spaniels just for the fun of it but its early days and maybe after a hard days running he might take to it without a retrieve also the gait and build means that even tho he looks like he s cantering hes actually eating the ground up and when i first got him he put me in mind of a well boned deerhound lol anyway so far so good with him but once hes entered to game for the first time this coming season i expect the switch to really flick on plus id say alot of the steady work he s doing at the moment may go out of his head on a few ocassions but i ll just have to keep a firm hand and keep him on track

Has the dog had his terrible teens yet? Around the thirteen months age they get a period where you could swear you had never trained the dog. It usually lasts a couple of months where the dog is constantly trying you. The first one I had it drove me nuts. Yet by the time he was fifteen months he had settled and was doing everything he should.

 

You are right about the different working style, and then never stop learning they will take to almost any type of work just show them what you need them to do and they will do it. My first one was bought to use with the hawk and both his parents and grand parents worked with hawks. From there it was a small step to ferreting, then during the summer months he would sit in the hide with me, totally relaxed and would only be sent out for wounded birds. Winter then he would wildfowling on the marshes and it was his retrieving ability tha prompted me to start picking up with him.

 

His first drive and he did not know what hit him, the volleys of shots and birds dropping all around him, a runner dropped into a gutter and he was sent to retieve it, but he just kept picking up dead birds and bringing them back to me. He was like a kid in a sweet shop. Once all the easy birds had been picked I took him to where the runner had dropped and he was off on the drag and eventually came back with the bird. By the end of the first day he seemed to have grasped what was needed of him.

 

Any rough shooter could do no better than to use a GWP. But as stated if you have to see a dog rattle the hedges just on the off chance that there is something at home then they are not for you.

 

TC

Edited by tiercel

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It's like crossing a Maserati (wirehair) with a Dumptruck (lab).

 

Nuff said?

Well,Such a non statement that is ! and best left over your side of the water..But as you maybe or not be aware we do send alot of trialing dogs over to your part`s, so some things cant be that bad.

 

Stick in

 

Non statement? It's the truest thing you can say on the matter. Wirehairs are the product of some of the most intricate breeding yet done. They are fine gun dogs for the foot hunter, as well as fine in the water. On top of that, they blood track, dispatch vermin, and guard you while you sleep. What exactly could a Labrador retriever contribute to this breeding?

 

By the way, I meant no offense to anyone.

 

ATB

 

What proper trained working Lab cant do all those things like?

 

Well, if you have all day. Then Maybe.....

 

Obviously never seen a proper Lab'.............just as i thought.... :D Bring on your GWP's...... :yes:

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TIERCEL I have not shot over pointers on a rough shoot but seen them working on a few grouse moors and driven shoots.As for rough shooting the breed aint for me and I have to disagree with your comment THAT A ROUGH SHOOTER COULD NOT DO BETTER THAN A GWP. I want a dog to hunt out cover and surprise me with a flush both labs and springers do tell you by body language if owts about but it doesn't lower the excitement because you don't no if its going to fly or run or even if it's just a hot seat . On the other hand a pointer in a hide or water or on a moor pointing as you say works well but to me that's not rough shooting and I suppose it depends on folks idea of a rough shoot

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TIERCEL I have not shot over pointers on a rough shoot but seen them working on a few grouse moors and driven shoots.As for rough shooting the breed aint for me and I have to disagree with your comment THAT A ROUGH SHOOTER COULD NOT DO BETTER THAN A GWP. I want a dog to hunt out cover and surprise me with a flush both labs and springers do tell you by body language if owts about but it doesn't lower the excitement because you don't no if its going to fly or run or even if it's just a hot seat . On the other hand a pointer in a hide or water or on a moor pointing as you say works well but to me that's not rough shooting and I suppose it depends on folks idea of a rough shoot

It's each to their own I suppose, in the fifty odd years I have been into field sports I have had most breeds of working dogs Labs, Spaniels, lurchers, terriers and of course the GWP's. The only dog I would chose out of that list as one dog scenario, would be the GWP.

 

As a bye if you have never shot over them, how do you know they are not for you? How are you qualified to disagree "THAT A ROUGH SHOOTER COULD NOT DO BETTER THAN A GWP." You may not like the idea, thats fair enough, everybreed of dog has it's devotees, I have not knocked any other breed save to say that the GWP can do most other dogs work as well as that other breed and a lot more besides.

 

TC

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TIERCEL I have not shot over pointers on a rough shoot but seen them working on a few grouse moors and driven shoots.As for rough shooting the breed aint for me and I have to disagree with your comment THAT A ROUGH SHOOTER COULD NOT DO BETTER THAN A GWP. I want a dog to hunt out cover and surprise me with a flush both labs and springers do tell you by body language if owts about but it doesn't lower the excitement because you don't no if its going to fly or run or even if it's just a hot seat . On the other hand a pointer in a hide or water or on a moor pointing as you say works well but to me that's not rough shooting and I suppose it depends on folks idea of a rough shoot

It's each to their own I suppose, in the fifty odd years I have been into field sports I have had most breeds of working dogs Labs, Spaniels, lurchers, terriers and of course the GWP's. The only dog I would chose out of that list as one dog scenario, would be the GWP.

 

As a bye if you have never shot over them, how do you know they are not for you? How are you qualified to disagree "THAT A ROUGH SHOOTER COULD NOT DO BETTER THAN A GWP." You may not like the idea, thats fair enough, everybreed of dog has it's devotees, I have not knocked any other breed save to say that the GWP can do most other dogs work as well as that other breed and a lot more besides.

 

TC

 

your right I haven't shot over them but the times I have seen them out I honestly don't know how you would stop them from ranging to far other than keeping them at heal you say you havn't knocked other breeds that's not strictly true as you is it ? by stating (not do better than gwp!).as for qualified who is it's just my opinion giving in the reply to your post and by the way TC you must be as old as me :laugh: a.t.b.

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having recently aquired my first gwp after a life time of spaniels i ve had my eyes opened to the different temperments of the two breeds the gwp seems to grasp things over a shorter period which i think is due to its more layed back temperment on the flip side i find it hard to adjusts to the way he works an area ranging down wind and lifting his head to get his nostrils filled or just walking up the back of hedges having a good draw then walking on if nothing interests him were as the spaniel will have shook same hegde to its roots before passing it on were by you know nothing is at home now when the gwp does get a scent then he goes up about 5 gears and his whole attitude changes and nothing stops him hedges etc he just punches a hole in them so i suppose i just have to trust the dog and his nose as for the water i just introduced him slowly to it and he eventually took to it no prob and will enter no prob for a retrieve he will walk the shore up to his belly but he will not enter like the spaniels just for the fun of it but its early days and maybe after a hard days running he might take to it without a retrieve also the gait and build means that even tho he looks like he s cantering hes actually eating the ground up and when i first got him he put me in mind of a well boned deerhound lol anyway so far so good with him but once hes entered to game for the first time this coming season i expect the switch to really flick on plus id say alot of the steady work he s doing at the moment may go out of his head on a few ocassions but i ll just have to keep a firm hand and keep him on track

Im in a similar position myself Mr Mac, always had spaniels as I was a keeper, but I changed when my old spaniels died, and got into the gwp's, I gotta say I have more of a connection with the pointers, they really suit my sort of mooching and rough shooting, with a bit of deer tracking, and some boar hunting too. In fact they get involved with pretty much everything I get up to. I reckon I would happily keep pointers for the rest of my days. :thumbs:

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your right I haven't shot over them but the times I have seen them out I honestly don't know how you would stop them from ranging to far other than keeping them at heal you say you havn't knocked other breeds that's not strictly true as you is it ? by stating (not do better than gwp!).as for qualified who is it's just my opinion giving in the reply to your post and by the way TC you must be as old as me :laugh: a.t.b.

 

That is the populer misconception about HPR you do not need to stop them ranging, in fact you should encourage it, even for rough shooting, as you will cover twice the ground in half the time. Take a secenario of a thick hawthorn or blackthorn hedge, You would put a spaniel or lab to work at one end and work along the hedge. No need to do that with a HPR all you need to do is put the dog on the down wind side of the hedge and let it run along the hedge if there is anything at home the dog will come on point, it does not matter if the dog is a 100 yards away from you it will stay on point till told to flush. I used to do a lot of woodcock shooting and they were brilliant for it.

 

The only difference is you have to learn how the dog uses the wind, A good pointer will always work into the wind naturally therefore you have to work the ground with this in mind. I know some have a walk around and chose the same route each time. You cannot do that, well you can, but it would be putting the dog at a disadvantage and be counterproductive.

 

As I said in a post earlier in this thread training a pointer GWP's especially is a shock to the system if you have only trained spaniels and labs etc: You have to rethink everything you have learned about working dogs. You have to be able to have that trust in the dog and some people just are not capable of giving that trust. Some people are not happy to betold there is no water in the bucket they have to tip it up to see for themselves.

 

TC

Edited by tiercel
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I can see the use of pointing in wide open spaces coming onto point and allowing the gun to catch up and take aim .In the real rough shoot you hunt up behind your dog working to find and flush within shot even if the wind direction changes also not many of rabbits on my permission will site tight while a dog runs past to position itself in the right wind direction. I do not doubt the gws can work well in the field but again I stick by my reply in saying gwp is not the best dog to rough shoot over in the way I and many of my friends rough shoot . As for covering twice the ground in half the time champion for driven shooting but rough shooting isn't a race.

Edited by hily

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I can see the use of pointing in wide open spaces coming onto point and allowing the gun to catch up and take aim .In the real rough shoot you hunt up behind your dog working to find and flush within shot even if the wind direction changes.I do not doubt the gws can work well in the field but again I stick by my reply in saying gwp is not the best dog to rough shoot over in the way I and many of my friends rough shoot . As for covering twice the ground in half the time champion for driven shooting but rough shooting isn't a race.

I think we are on the same wave length here mate. For me rough shooting is working the dog and the surprise element of a bird getting up..whether its a pheasant, partridge, woodcock or whatever. I think if i was to work a GWP on a rough day and it was pointing and you were just to go up beside it, gun safety off and ready to shoot i would find that less exciting. Like shooting fish in a barrel sort of thing.... :thumbs:

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It's like crossing a Maserati (wirehair) with a Dumptruck (lab).

 

Nuff said?

Well,Such a non statement that is ! and best left over your side of the water..But as you maybe or not be aware we do send alot of trialing dogs over to your part`s, so some things cant be that bad.

 

Stick in

 

Non statement? It's the truest thing you can say on the matter. Wirehairs are the product of some of the most intricate breeding yet done. They are fine gun dogs for the foot hunter, as well as fine in the water. On top of that, they blood track, dispatch vermin, and guard you while you sleep. What exactly could a Labrador retriever contribute to this breeding?

 

By the way, I meant no offense to anyone.

 

ATB

 

What proper trained working Lab cant do all those things like?

 

Well, if you have all day. Then Maybe.....

 

Obviously never seen a proper Lab'.............just as i thought.... :D Bring on your GWP's...... :yes:

 

In my experience labs don't perform well around Wirehairs. The labs seem intimidated, and tend to just plop down on the ground. But whatever you like I guess. :whistling:

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It's like crossing a Maserati (wirehair) with a Dumptruck (lab).

 

Nuff said?

Well,Such a non statement that is ! and best left over your side of the water..But as you maybe or not be aware we do send alot of trialing dogs over to your part`s, so some things cant be that bad.

 

Stick in

 

Non statement? It's the truest thing you can say on the matter. Wirehairs are the product of some of the most intricate breeding yet done. They are fine gun dogs for the foot hunter, as well as fine in the water. On top of that, they blood track, dispatch vermin, and guard you while you sleep. What exactly could a Labrador retriever contribute to this breeding?

 

By the way, I meant no offense to anyone.

 

ATB

 

What proper trained working Lab cant do all those things like?

 

Well, if you have all day. Then Maybe.....

 

Obviously never seen a proper Lab'.............just as i thought.... :D Bring on your GWP's...... :yes:

 

In my experience labs don't perform well around Wirehairs. The labs seem intimidated, and tend to just plop down on the ground. But whatever you like I guess. :whistling:

 

Yes thats another thing...........most off them are vicious b*****ds......... :angel::D

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See what you started Possumtrapper :signthankspin::laugh:

Tiercel

Ill tell you of my experiences of the HPR breed,1st a picking up experience where a bird shot and with a broken leg planed down and landed way up the bank over a river and behind some bushes ( the line off the fall was visable ).One of the pickers up with his WHP cast is dog which swam the river and upon getting out of the water began to range all over,until eventually and not taking a direct line came upon the wounded bird ( this was a marked retrieve 250 yards ), may i add the dog was basically out of control until it got right side of the wind and located, ( hunting up ? ).Upon locating, the WHP went on point.So To cut the chase, the guy missed nearly 2 drives,having to drive his vehicle to retrieve his dog and the bird..

So no Tiercel, in this case the HPR didnt do what a Retriever could do.It maybe down to poor training as i know very well that there are so called retrievers that would not have even done the distance across the river never mind up the bank..But if we talk about things being even,a well train Lab would of made a better job of the retrieve,than the HPR due to the more direct line a Lab will take.

My second point is that HPR`s and when people talk about "Rough Shooting" this to me can only be possible in a kind of solo situation.Not the Stand one -walk one application !

.Well, beating in pheasant / partridge situations i can see you having your hands full..

But as i have said " i have never used a retriever in the flush mode and never would " If i rough shoot, i shoot over the Spaniel, with a lab at my side for big retrieves,now that is a sight to see !

 

:bye:

Edited by camokev64

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It's like crossing a Maserati (wirehair) with a Dumptruck (lab).

 

Nuff said?

Well,Such a non statement that is ! and best left over your side of the water..But as you maybe or not be aware we do send alot of trialing dogs over to your part`s, so some things cant be that bad.

 

Stick in

 

Non statement? It's the truest thing you can say on the matter. Wirehairs are the product of some of the most intricate breeding yet done. They are fine gun dogs for the foot hunter, as well as fine in the water. On top of that, they blood track, dispatch vermin, and guard you while you sleep. What exactly could a Labrador retriever contribute to this breeding?

 

By the way, I meant no offense to anyone.

 

ATB

 

What proper trained working Lab cant do all those things like?

 

Well, if you have all day. Then Maybe.....

 

Obviously never seen a proper Lab'.............just as i thought.... :D Bring on your GWP's...... :yes:

 

In my experience labs don't perform well around Wirehairs. The labs seem intimidated, and tend to just plop down on the ground. But whatever you like I guess. :whistling:

 

Yes thats another thing...........most off them are vicious b*****ds......... :angel::D

 

You know, I wouldn't mind hunting with a top notch lab. If it could actually keep up that is....

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